To ask why anyone would get married or live with someone?

[Moremoneyplease]

The more I read on MN, the more I genuinely wonder why we're all compelled to form relationships and move in with one another/get married. There are so many posts talking about husbands/partners not helping out or bullying/controlling/belittling women.

I have daughters and I worry about the relationships they may form as adults. I have tried to bring them up to be confident and able to stand up for themselves, but even when a man seems perfectly lovely for the first few years, behaviour often seems to change when children come along.

So how can any woman be sure that she has picked well??

I see your point but I love living with my partner.

He's tall and I'm 5ft 2 so he changes light bulbs and gets stuff down from the top shelf for me 🤣

He's also really good at catching spiders whereas I'm a city girl and terrified of everything lol.

I've been a single mum for years. I got by and was happy. However I have to say I am a lot happier and contented now that I have a husband. The childcare load is lightened, there's always someone there for company, he's a fantastic father and partner. But the short answer is that I love him, so I like having him around.

@FrangipaniBlue That is victim blaming pure and simple.

It’s a bad contract if you are a woman with a career and work hard. It is an ancient arrangement from the days when women were dependent on men and didn’t have any economic freedom. Times have changed and marriage is now a bad contract.

Isn't there that saying - don't find someone you can live with, find someone you can't live without?

I've been married for 10 years and my DH is still the person I like the best. It's just not very exciting to tell MN about our hilarious (to us) conversation on the school run or our tomato ketchup taste test.

That is victim blaming pure and simple.

It's not though. I have known a few women and men (and there are loads of threads here too) that moan about how shit their partner is and continue to have children and stay with them. Whilst admitting they have always been shit and they havent been happy for years.

I am not talking abuse. I am talking just general shitty relationships. I often wonder why they had a third child when the dh did fuck all with the first 2. Or never cleaned up before they had kids.

You see the following sentence all the time 'I thought having a child would make them grow up/step up'.

I dont think marriage is a bad contract for all women. It's not one I will choose to enter. But it's not bad for all women either.

I realised I wanted to marry DH when it hit me that he was the ONLY person that I genuinely want to see every day. That sentiment has stuck for 5 years, no matter how much he pisses me off I'm always happy when he gets home from work and whenever we have time just the two of us.

Not all relationships are like those complained about on MN.

@catspyjamas123 doesn't that depend on the relationship? If you are with a man who doesn't pull his weight in other areas then yes it is a bad arrangement. However some of the relationships I know where the woman is the higher earner she wasn't always the higher earner in their relationship.

I often think about this and its kind of been highlighted by some of the threads I read on here. Like why? Why do some women and men put themselves through this? I have always said I don't want to marry (and if I did its purely for the dress and reception and then he can go away LOL) and the thought of someone essentially invading mines and DD's home, space, lives...it terrifies me. I literally just want consistent peen and some banter until I get bored and we go our seperate ways. I don't need or want anyone to do this with as I have done everything myself already (home, business etc) and I'm happy.

I like being married and when I look back to single dating life I know I feel happier and more settled now.

As for my dd I’ll have a chat, haven’t thought about it yet too young, but moreover I’m teaching two Ds to do stuff. Cook, tidy, don’t be sexist.

@colafreezepop any contract that gives another person a claim on your finances for doing precisely nothing is an extremely bad one.

And I am saying this from a female point of view. For example I don’t regard becoming pregnant, carrying and birthing a child and caring for it afterwards as nothing. It’s a massive contribution to any relationship.

But a man can claim a woman’s money when all he has done is basically been a sperm donor. Bad deal.

I guess it’s different strokes for different folks. All men and women are unique as are their relationships so what works for one person/couple won’t work for another.

Personally I am a better human being with my husband - he has grounded me and has been great with me, my family and our child. I have been in absolutely hellish relationships though and was close to marrying in one- that would never have worked out in hindsight as he was arrogant and controlling. Until I met my DH, as an only child with quite a controlling father and controlling boyfriends that was my entire perception of men and relationships. My DH is the only guy I’ve been with that has been calmer and more chilled out than me!

If I had married one of my exes I would be agreeing with you though!

IME I know of more couples who have happy relationships than those who don't.

There are definitely a few who get on ok but have only stayed together for the kids and then there are those who really shouldn't be together at all and the female in the relationship is treated dreadfully (I don't know any the other way round). These couples seem to be much rarer in my circle of friends.

I am on my 2nd marriage, I was only 22 when I got married the first time but by the time I was 25 I realised it wasn't right, he was very controlling and got worse so I ended things. I would hope I teach my children to open themselves to relationships, to work hard as a couple but also be confident enough to end things when things aren't right. Obviously that is easier said than done but I think it is sad when people completely close themselves off, it is usually when they have been hurt by a complete twat IME, doesn't mean the next person will be the same.

@catspyjamas123 ok. My dbro had a property with 8 years left on the mortgage. Met his, now wife, they for married and had kids. He is the sahp as she wanted to pursue her career.

How has that been a bad deal for her? They are no mortgage free and she has a well paid career. Dbro is going back to worm next yea but is unlikely to catch her up, especially since its hee career that will take priority.

Are you suggesting that dbro should let her walk away with everything if they get a divorce?

I agree op, to some extent

Research shows single women are happier and live longer than married women. But the opposite for men - married men are happier and live longer than single men. So from a health and happiness point of view, marriage benefits men more than women. I wonder if this is because (although men can be abused too) it is more often men that are abusive than women. Maybe if you take abuse out of the equation, men and women are equally happy with marriage.

I think I'll be encouraging my daughters to get a good job that makes them happy and fill their life with fun things and a partner should add to that. And to only financially commit to a partner if everything is 50 50 in terms of housework, life admin, support, equality in the relationship etc.

Also you're right that research shows that people revert towards traditional gender roles when people have children. I'd encourage anyone who wants to have a baby to discuss -
How finances are going to be shared
How both careers are going to be affected
If both still have jobs after a baby how will things like pick ups, drop offs, days off sick when the child is sick etc be shared
How will time relaxing, time for hobbies, time out with friends be shared when one parent is on paternity leave and one is working or when both are working but one has dropped hours etc
If one is going to significantly drop or stop working hours after a child, how will childcare and chores be shared in the working day, in the evenings and at weekends? What if the parent who is mostly at home is sick?

I think everyone who gets married and thinks they might possibly want children should sit and talk through this and sign something! Then hopefully everyone can weed out people (usually men on here) who disappear for entire frequent weekends on their hobby because they 'work' while their partner is 'at home' with 3 kids under 5 and has responsibility for them 24/7/365 without a break even if they have the flu

@Tilltheendoftheline she’d be better to not be married, yes. How they have arranged ownership of the house if their own business but why should be be able to plunder her savings or raid her bank account? Ideally both partners should share the parenting and take an equal career hit.

@catspyjamas123 where did I say my DP, my brothers, some of my male friends and male colleagues do absolutely nothing? Oddly men are quite capable of looking after children including small one. I actually told my a couple of my SILs that due to the age gap your husband has already has some practice.

she’d be better to not be married, yes. How they have arranged ownership of the house if their own business but why should be be able to plunder her savings or raid her bank account? Ideally both partners should share the parenting and take an equal career hit.

And there is the hypocrisiy. She should get half the house, despite him paying it for years? They both worked until 4 years ago. But he shouldnt be entitled to anything from her?

Despite them having joint money because they decided to put her career first? They also wanted the kids to have a parent at home. They decided as a couple.

I though you said caring for kids is not nothing?

If he hadnt have stayed at home she wouldnt have been able to increase her earning potential and have the kids shd desperately wanted. So why should they share everything but not finances?

Though you think it would be ok, if she was the sahp.

That says to me, its actually a dislike of men you have. Not marriage.

I don’t see why anyone should lock themselves in to shared finances. Never again.

Because he earns lots more money than me so we can afford our mortgage

@Tilltheendoftheline Agree.

I don’t see why anyone should lock themselves in to shared finances. Never again.

Because they choose too. You totally ignored the fact that he has a house she also is entitled to half of. That's the point.

You dont seem to have taken into account the house is worth more than THEIR savings. Because he bought a house at 19. She now gets to live mortgage free.

All you can see is that 'oh no evil man, getting hands on a woman money through marriage'

Why (in your mind) is it ok for a woman to have access to mans money when she has been a sahp, but not the man if he is a sahp AND brought substainal assets to the marriage?

"...Even when a man seems perfectly lovely for the first few years, behaviour often seems to change when children come along."

I am not sure this is always true. Of course, people do change - sometimes for the worst. But I suspect that a lot of these guys were always the same and that what has happened is that a relationship/series of norms that worked for a couple in their 20s no longer work for a couple on their 30s.

Just teach your daughters to look out for men who are proper feminists. I.e. not men who reinforce a gendered division of labour, but those who are happy to muck in and do their share around the house and with childcare, without whinging about it.