Should OW expect to be welcomed into family?

[Nattyjackie]

Scenario: woman has long term affair with man with kids. Wider family (mother, siblings) find out. Marriage breaks down and man moves on with OW. Long term should the OW expect to be welcomed and accepted by family?

Please put aside Man's role in this for the moment which is of course the instigator of all this. I'm really interested in what the OWs expectations should be towards wider family.

Hmmm, yes, I would find this v difficult if it was my DB. My love for him would endure, but I would find it hard to ever trust the OW I imagine, in the circs you describe.
Completely different when a partnership ends and then a new person comes in, as has happened with my sibling, who has a lovely wife who he is much better suited to than his previous partner. It is the deceitful behaviour that is a problem.
I think you have to focus on the children in this, and be a fair, kind and consistent support for them.
Was your Db’s marriage a happy one ?

Whatever your brother and his wife (as she may want a divorce) decide, i would assess then not now. Unless he's trying to get you involved by introducing OW now?

Most important people imo is the children. His potential ex, yes probably she may or may not want support, but being there for the children whose lives could be turned upside down.

The difference between the cheat and OW/OM is you have no love, no history or friendship to convince you that you want to be involved and know them. They are a stranger and their entrance to you life is during a period of stress and shite. Whereas if you have all that with the cheat, you may naturally want to support them.

It is difficult to seperate the two people (relative and OW) but inevitably you do because one you have a relationship with and who you love and care about. The other person has brought pain and suffering to those you love (neices, nephews, SIL). It's hard to reconcile tbh.

I understand why you would irrationally feel this way but honestly I think you need to come to terms with that being hypocritical. If he leaves to form a relationship with OW and you forgive and accept him for it, then it is wrong to act like she has done something unforgivable that justifies open rudeness. You don't have to be anyone's best friend, but you should be polite unless you are going to take the same stance with your brother. He has also brought pain and suffering to people you love, either take a stand against it or don't.

I disagree. My father is my father - he is my parent, a blood relative, and although he had caused my mother, my siblings and myself a lot of hurt, ultimately he is family and I could, eventually, maybe not forgive him but try to rebuild a relationship with him.

His 'Vagina', on the other hand, is just that. She's not my family. She's a stranger and will always remain a stranger. Just a vagina that my father chose to put his dick in. She knew damn well that my father was married and had children. She knew what she was doing. And that's why none of our family want anything to do with her.

It really depends on the situation. And I think it's a bit different for different groups within the family too. The man's parents and his wider family, yes, I would think she could expect some acceptance over time. The wife? Possibly not, though I do think some people are genuinely that big a person that they move on and process it healthily for the sake of the children. I'm not sure this can be expected as a rule, though.

beautifulmelody with respect you have essentially just proved my point. She is not "a vagina", she is a person in her own right just as much as your father is, and they both equally made the choice to enter into a relationship knowing the consequences. By that logic, he is just a dick that fell into her vagina.

She is just a vagina TO YOU, but that doesn't mean it's not hypocritical to be fine with him but think what she did was somehow worse. The wife and child in the situation (like yourself) are directly affected by their decision so your responses can and should be different and more emotively driven than third parties like OP that are making the moral decision of whether it's ok to judge and ostracize her and not him. It isn't.

Why would some of you forgive their relative who cheated but not the OW/OM??? Because the relative is your own blood? Is that it?
From the many replies to the OP it sounds like it's still the OW who gets most of the blame. Why?? Because she's a woman? Remember it takes two to tango.

"She had the affair as she was very unhappy in the marriage.

So following that though OW should be accepted by the family of her now partner.

We don't know the ins and outs of the marriage but it's unlikely it was a great one if an affair and a relationship started"

No, it the person is unhappy in a relationship, they either try and sort it out or leave it. Sorry but I've got a very black and white view on affairs, I was cheated on and it bloody hurt. There is no excuse for an affair.

Sometimes people can be a wander full relationship, they just want to have their cake and eat it.

Do you understand what Internalised Mysogyny is @beautifulmelody ? If not I suggest you research it and maybe look inwards a little.

The words you use and the way you describe the woman your Father chose to spend his life with is pretty fucking disturbing.

Your father was at fault. She was not some hussy who stole him away or ruined his family. The family was already ruined before he decided to find someone else. He chose to blow up his marriage, not her.

The nuances of a situation like that are not black and white, and your resolve that by him simply being family, blood, absolves him of your disdain to the same level is, frankly, bizarre.

You've made an enemy out of someone who probably loves your father. Just because of some silly notion set by society that adultery is the biggest sin someone can commit, and that she was the instigator and of course, he didn't have any autonomy did he

I think this is turning into the eternal discussion of who's more or less to blame - the father/husband for betraying the family, or the the OW for going with a man who has to betray his family to love her.

Neither one comes out great. Both cause hurt in order to have their desire. Ultimately both are responsible. Both had the choice to say no, I'm not going there.

Beautifulmelody I totally hear you and thank you for speaking up with your irrespective as a child caught up in the effects of an affair. I don't think you're irrational - it makes sense that your father, whatever he does, is still (in a sometimes difficult and confusing way) your closest family. Of course you love him. Why should his sexual choice affect your love?

I use the word sexual here because that's what we are all skirting around. Beatifulmelody has said it. It's bad enough as a kid realising your parents have sex. But the horror of the thought of him having sex with another woman - it's actually traumatising. Especially if you're in your teens and kind of get what's going on.

The horror of that reality takes a long time to get over, for some children. (And wives but let's focus on the kids for now). And the sense of transgression/lawlessness - that a boundary that should never be crossed has just been demolished. We all know that if the OW in beautifulmelody's case had said no, then that boundary might not ever have been crossed. Her dad might still be with the family. Of course she detests the OW. It's completely normal and logical.

Kids would usually rather have their parents together with a bad sex life than apart having amazing sex with someone else. Of course.

I think the kids' feelings should be respected and they should be given time.

Perspective not irrespective ...

I've been the sister in this situation as well. I frankly don't really care hiw my brothers previous marriage ended. It wasn't mine and so wasn't my business. I got on ok with my first sister in law and I get on ok with the second one.

My husband at the time and I didn't get embroiled into any blame games and we keep our contact with the children through their father. We didn't expect my brother or his new wife to show humility, beat themselves up or constantly apologise because they are human, we are human and we all fuck up sometimes. It's really just making drama for the sake of it.

While I think that the kids are entitled to feel resentment towards a parent and also to an affair partner, I think that referring to her as “his vagina” is disgusting and inexcusable. Upset does not give someone the right to act and lash out in whatever they want without retribution.

lottelupin we are not talking about the kids, we are talking about third parties within the family. There is absolutely reason for a grown adult relative to be so traumatised by the "horror" of their relative having sex that they would demonize and outcast the person they had sex with, that would be ridiculous. The only thing a third party needs to judge is whether it's fair to treat them that way whilst accepting the relative from a moral point of view, which it isn't.

If it was one of my children who had cheated and broken up their family I would be very ashamed of them and disappointed in them and they would know that. I wouldn’t even have to tell them. That being said, I would still welcome them and the new partner into the home and family circle because that’s what unconditional love means.

Hahahaha, so maybe I should, um, RESPECT that woman now? Lol. No chance.

I don't have much respect for my father. I forgave him, but I don't respect him. Yes, he is a dickhead, and YES, he is my closest family and my blood which is why I treat him better than I treat the Vagina, who is to me, literally a vagina, my father's mattress, and nothing else.

And I would most certainly feel the same way if my mother had an affair instead of my father. The OM in that situation would be nothing more than a dick for my mother's amusement.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I agree with that. People are far too quick to appoint themselves judge and jury over other people’s lives.

My DP’s brother’s wife had an affair. His brother made her stand in front of the kids while he called her a slag and made the kids repeat it.

He then rang the family and forbade them all to have anything to do with her.

And my DP told him to do one. He said to him that all of this was an impulse reaction and that if they in fact worked things out the same BIL would be expecting the family to welcome her back. Turns out they did work things out, for about seven years at least. She did actually leave him for someone else, but she waited until her kids had finished school. And I’m sorry but I refuse to judge her, because he absolutely wasn’t blameless here IMO.

You have serious issues @beautifulmelody

Genuinely.

I've never really been the OW but I sure as hell wouldn't want anything to do with any child or adult who referred to me as vagina, so I'd be happy to have nothing to do,with that family.

You have serious issues @beautifulmelody**

Caused entirely by her father’s sexual incontinence when she was a child. Which is rather her point.

Leighhalfpennysthigh that's the other elephant in the room, isn't it, there's an assumption on this thread that the new partner will be continually jumping through hoops for years on end to try and gain acceptance from the wider family, but if someone (especially someone who was not directly affected) was this rude to or about me and it was a double standard from how they treated my partner then I would not be bothered about being a part of their family and would not be spending time with them, and so naturally neither would my partner or our daughter. That's something worth considering when you decide how to treat them.

A previous OP said that she thought it depends in part on how the OW behaves after the split and I agree with that.
My dad's OW behaved awfully - no apology or remorse, just nasty statements that he was hers now and that there was nothing we could do about it. Not once ounce of sympathy for my mum or us DC. Every encounter with her proved she was a very toxic person.

It also depends on how the person who has been left behaves - the day my dad left, we DC just became weapons in mum's war with him. She made life very difficult for us if we saw him and made it clear to all her friends and family that any contact with him would result in her cutting people off.

In that situation, it doesn't take much imagination to work out why none of us DC have much contact with my dad any more - 2 of us are NC and one LC..

@Novembersbean exactly that. I don't know where these families are that have endless events and live in each other's pockets, but mine are t like that. Nor have either in law family I've been involved in.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.

[...]

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Some of the responses on here are pretty shocking. The poster whose 9 year old has no contact with her father who declared she wouldn’t go to her own child’s wedding in future if the ex / ow were there. This is how my own parents act to this day and it’s so immature and damaging to the child. Just find someone who actually does love you and be happy in your life! Many many marriages fail. Sometimes people don’t realise how unhappy they are in a relationship until someone new and shiny turns up and shows them how it could be. Chances are, the new relationship will fail too. People are flawed, holding grudges for years on end does nobody any favours at all.