Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should OW expect to be welcomed into family?

476 replies

Nattyjackie · 29/09/2019 11:53

Scenario: woman has long term affair with man with kids. Wider family (mother, siblings) find out. Marriage breaks down and man moves on with OW. Long term should the OW expect to be welcomed and accepted by family?

Please put aside Man's role in this for the moment which is of course the instigator of all this. I'm really interested in what the OWs expectations should be towards wider family.

OP posts:
lottelupin · 01/10/2019 07:35

It's a question of how the OW behaved.

If she was respectful of the wife and kids in the sense that she felt bad for what she was doing and she didn't try to interfere with the guy being a father (leaving on one side the original and persistent deception - bigger picture required to know really what happened), then at some point when people can live with it, she could be reasonably tolerated.

If she was unkind and selfish and caused a lot of additional pain to the wife and kids, then I imagine she'd always be at arms length, if not totally out.

Time tends to make a difference. And if the wife moves on with another partner, then the OW's radioactivity fades.

NorthOfTheWatfordGap · 01/10/2019 08:15

@sadanade I'm quite hurt at your comments and lack of humility. DP and I both worked hard at our marriages and didn't make any choices lightly. If anything it was our respective mothers who both told us independently that life is too short and we should be honest with ourselves. 3yrs down the line they were right and certainly my ex H gets on well with my DP. His ex W and I have limited contact but it's not vitriolic. Sometimes marriages run their course like any relationship.

I don't know why I'm explaining myself on an online forum but I hope you aren't so judgemental in real life

LellyMcKelly · 01/10/2019 08:20

She should have no expectations. It is entirely up to the family if they want to engage with her, and that would depend largely on the circumstances.

NorthOfTheWatfordGap · 01/10/2019 08:30

Apologies but my reply should be to @saranade

SaraNade · 01/10/2019 08:54

@NorthOfTheWatfordGap The lack of humility and self-awareness in your posts is absolutely breath-taking, and the thing is, you don't even recognise in yourself. You think someone calling you to account (because you said, your own mother clearly hasn't, she has enabled you by telling you life is too short, so go do what you want no matter who you hurt) is 'lacking humility' and 'judgemental' - wow. WOW. You've need been told the harsh home truths, have you?

Sometimes marriages run their course like any relationship.

Fine. But you get out before having an affair. What is it about that basic concept, that you cannot understand?

I would say I would hope you wouldn't be so lacking in self-awareness, so lacking in basic humility and so selfish in real life, but it's clear that you honestly don't see that you've done anything wrong. That is the absolute breathtaking part. Your own mother has enabled you and told you it is ok to just take what isn't yours. I guess going by your own mother, you never really had a chance at understanding basic human ethics. You seem to be doubling down on what you did, and are shocked that anyone would call you on your cruel, heartless and abhorrent behaviour. If you really believed you did everything to save your relationship, you would at least show even a little remorse, instead of shock you are being called out on here.

I guess you'll find out a few home truths that you are not better than his original wife when he cheats on you. And, when the new sidepiece says she can't help it, that her mother told her life is too short and that she should grab her happiness (never mind it is your partner!) you just might be brought down to earth and down several pegs and then you just might see that your cavalier, arrogant, cruel, grabby and selfish attitude to life and to other people's spouses isn't all that cracked up to be. I can all but promise you, it will happen. And when it does, my wish is that you remember this conversation and it hits home like nothing before. Because you can NEVER be happy on the back of someone else's suffering. What you have, is a man that cheats on women. Yay you! Oh, but you're 'different', aren't you? I'm sure his ex-wife thought that. I guess part of your karma is you have to spend every day knowing that. It's a pity that fact hasn't humbled you, nor has it made you even the least bit remorseful instead of lashing out at people saying you should at least, at least, show a little remorse instead of acting like you deserve to be happy and stuff the wife.

NorthOfTheWatfordGap · 01/10/2019 09:05

@sadanade you are coming over as very bitter and twisted.

SaraNade · 01/10/2019 09:06

Fancy being upset at being called out on bad behaviour. Like, how DARE someone stand in the way! 'My mother told me life is too short, so I decided to have an affair., because, I deserve to be happy. Me, I, me. Stuff his wife.' When people have experienced that sort of parenting, they clearly never stood a chance. And, instead, attack someone who tells you what you did is wrong. As we can see, parenting is everything. If you aren't brought up right, you just cannot comprehend what you are doing is wrong. Everyone else is wrong and being 'judgemental'.

It would be different if they showed some level of remorse and humility. Saying, my mum said I should take what I want because I deserve to be happy, and there are '3 sides' to hurting an innocent person, is what will anger people, what is seen as the insult. At least most people have the good sense to act ashamed and remorseful, not to double down. It's the blatant f you I am entitled to it attitude that will piss people off. That poster is an example of how NOT to present yourself in public.

The good thing about these people is they always come crashing to earth. The karma train always hits.

SaraNade · 01/10/2019 09:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SaraNade · 01/10/2019 09:10

For what it's worth, I've never been cheated on or cheated on anyone, so I have no reason to be 'bitter and twisted' but I have seen the affects through various family members and friends. It's the blatant unremoreseful attitude you show that will rub people the wrong way. Maybe take the hint and look at how you come across.

SaraNade · 01/10/2019 09:14

It's a question of how the OW behaved. Exactly lottelupin . If someone truly acts remorseful then eventually I believe they could be accepted. BUT, if someone doubles down, acts shocked they are called on it, basically says the innocent wife is partly to blame, and basically flaunts it and thinks they were entitled to hurt and steamroll people, then it will NOT be well-received. Online or in real life.

How you act afterwards is critical.

Runningsmooth · 01/10/2019 09:22

I think if you encourage a mother or father to leave their children then you are just not for me. Having been a child I get the enormity of a parent leaving to be in a different, new, 'better' family. To minimize the impact of that on children and to excuse it with talk of love is juvenile. We are adults. Find someone else.

SirVixofVixHall · 01/10/2019 10:18

This happened in my wider family. My uncle was the man in the situation. The OW was considerably younger, not much older than my cousins, which really did not help.
Initially my cousins (then late teens) loathed her, and so sibling and I (younger than cousins) backed them up and pretty much ignored her. However over time one cousin, became more friendly towards OW, while the other stayed close to his mum and refused to have anything to do with her. Uncle died, OW has remarried but is in touch with my cousin still.
This caused further fractures in the family and my cousins are totally estranged from each other.

I can see now that Uncle’s marriage was not madly happy. He was not a very good husband and my aunt is a fiery person so there were explosive rows. His OW was very young, and probably in awe of him.
Affairs can be a bomb going off in a family though, they hurt so many more people than just the wife, and they can cause problems for decades.

SpringStory · 01/10/2019 10:19

My DF had an affair around 40 years ago, some letters and gifts to OW were found and my DM kicked him out and filed for divorce. He instantly married the OW within weeks of his divorce coming through and had more children with her. My DM then remarried 2 years later and is still happily married to my lovely stepdad. DM & DF havnt been in the same room together in over 35 years and we have always been forced to choose a side by my DM and not invite DF to things. She is still very very bitter about the split and wont even hear his name said without passing comment. He has always been gracious about this, accepting he caused the split, and said he understands and never made it awkward for us. The OW was my stepmother for 30-odd years and was a better DM than my actual one. She never overstepped and we never did mothers day and I called her by her first name, but she was really a lovely woman and the best thing to happen to my parents unhappy marriage. She was accepted by almost all my DFs family and they appeared to believe the "nothing happened until I was divorced" storyline, although I doubt that. One of his sisters did not go to their wedding as they disagreed. My DM was still treated as part of the family after the split and, when we were little, she even spent christmass's with DFs family (without him there). However DF (and OW) would obviously come first in things like birthdays and family events and my DM wasnt invited.

However last year when OW left the family home, taking her children and grandchildren with her, to instantly move in with another man, this caused massive upset in my DFs family. Yet it was "ok" when he did it. I have zero problem, even now, with any of my parents or step parents. Although I now dont see OW as it would upset my DF, i personally like her as a person but think she just makes some shit life choices.

batvixen123 · 01/10/2019 11:00

@NorthOfTheWatfordGap - you won't get a realistic or human response to anything relating to infidelity on MN. There's this attitude that leaving a relationship is the worst thing anyone can do, and if there is an OW or OM to focus blame on, then they are the very spawn of Satan. But that's all it is - a focus point. I've seen it often enough on posts where no physical affair has happened - then there are accusations of vague emotional affairs and if there is no affair at all, then the leaving party is lying or being irresponsible to break up a family without 'good reason'.

Some people here are quite bizarre about the reality that some relationships don't work and end for all kinds of reasons.

Nattyjackie · 01/10/2019 11:10

To answer previous questions, I am the sister of the man having the affair.

I want to focus on the OW rather than the culpability of the man as believe you me I have very strong views on that too! but its how to treat the OW I'm struggling with.

So to give a bit more context:

OW knew he had a family from the beginning and actively pursued him (this does not diminish his culpability btw this is just for background info)

Affair been going on for sometime

No chance of future kids

what are your thoughts in this context?

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 01/10/2019 11:10

I think you need to respect his decision.

lottelupin · 01/10/2019 11:15

I think SaraNade is making a point forcefully, but just because it's loud, I'm afraid that doesn't mean it's not right. I think she makes a crucial point in this discussion of how the OW will be seen and accepted.

The moral assumption of 'you deserve to be happy so go for it' is, ultimately, that your happiness is more important than someone else's. That your happiness is so important that hurting others is reasonable collateral damage. This is the bit that some people will find too much, and the cost of the relationship too high. Others will feel it's ok, and go ahead.

And some will feel bad, but judge that the original relationship, the marriage, is doomed or finished anyhow, so it's ok to salvage a partner from its ruins. In this case, the other partner in that marriage should also be in the same place and therefore not mind handing over. Which is often not the case. Hence the upset and sense of transgression.

That's why I say how the OW behaved is crucial in future acceptance. Because by having been part of the affair and likely deception, she's already seen as morally bankrupt, and an aggressor who has hurt loved ones, including children. Hats hard to come back from, and tbh you probably have to be v decent and v selfless for several years, as long as it takes.

If, as does quite often happen, the guy is eventually unfaithful to the OW as well, that's the point at which the family may be more accepting. As then they feel the pitch has been levelled.

The cost of putting yourself first is always going to be high. If you run someone over to get into the Whistles sale first, you can't expect them to be nice to you just because you're sorry that getting what you wanted meant trampling them. That's the deal here.

My advice would be: keep a very low profile. And hope over time they decide to give you a chance. But don't feel they're obliged to.

Nattyjackie · 01/10/2019 11:16

He hasn't made a decision yet so no decision to respect. Just a bloody big train crash about to happen that will directly impact two kids.

OP posts:
WhisperingPines · 01/10/2019 11:18

batvixen123, I agree this post is turning into the Last Judgment!

Bluntness100 · 01/10/2019 11:18

Then stay out of it till he does. It's his marriage not yours. And when he makes his decision respect it.

lottelupin · 01/10/2019 11:22

Ok NattieJackie sorry just saw context.

I think your priority should be his ex wife and family. You really should show solidarity with them. It will be immensely helpful to them. They need to be able to trust and rely on you. That way his betrayal is isolated, rather than everyone seeing them and their feelings as worthless.

So: if it were my brother, I'd explain to him and the OW that their relationship is their business, but as a sister in law and aunt, you wouldn't countenance adding to the pain if his family, so fit the foreseeable future you're not ready for a new family tie with the OW.

Let his family get stronger before you have him and the OW round for Xmas dinner. You have the option to show them love and humanity.

lottelupin · 01/10/2019 11:23

Omg sorry for my typos - must edit!

Nattyjackie · 01/10/2019 11:28

Its been interesting reading the range of views and its given me loads to think about. I don't think it is black and white. I wouldn't want anyone to stay in an unhappy marriage as that is itself a lie. In which case end it cleanly and fairly.

What I struggle with is the expectation that the rest of the family should be expected to operate in a moral vacuum when the individual has behaved badly and caused hurt and pain through a long term affair. It is difficult to seperate the two people (relative and OW) but inevitably you do because one you have a relationship with and who you love and care about. The other person has brought pain and suffering to those you love (neices, nephews, SIL). It's hard to reconcile tbh.

OP posts:
lottelupin · 01/10/2019 11:34

Personally I don't think the OW should be publicly warmly accepted for the simple fact that it will hurt and confuse the children even more. And send a worrying message that it's ok in the end to cheat.

I'd keep the OW at arm's length for a good while. Give his family time to recover (and kids time to grow up).

Rainbowhairdontcare · 01/10/2019 11:35

I think the OW (I really dislike that term) will understand.

The siblings that I know, both had an affair but the sister was very close to her SIL. The SIL stayed by the side of the exW but was never rude to the OW.

The OW has been welcomed to the family (just like her OM) but she always keeps some distance.

I think everyone involved understands her position.

Swipe left for the next trending thread