Should OW expect to be welcomed into family?

[Nattyjackie]

Scenario: woman has long term affair with man with kids. Wider family (mother, siblings) find out. Marriage breaks down and man moves on with OW. Long term should the OW expect to be welcomed and accepted by family?

Please put aside Man's role in this for the moment which is of course the instigator of all this. I'm really interested in what the OWs expectations should be towards wider family.

I apologise to youcantchoosethem, I was being rhetorical in the sense that the OW was acting as if it were justified that they had an affair with a married because 'she didn't make him happy', I know you weren't an OW yourself and I made it sound as if I were referring to you, when I should have clarified it is the 'attitude' that it is all the onus of the spouse to make them happy and that it justified cheating, that I was responding to. My apologies for making it look like I was accusing you and attacking you.

@Bartlet I'm not sure how expecting someone to stick to their vows, that they willingly made, of their own free will, is 'foolish'. Marriage is something that you do enter into for the rest of your natural lives. That is actually the meaning and definition of marriage. I didn't invent marriage. I am simply saying what it is. Unless you are suggesting people marry without knowing what marriage actually is and what they are entering into?

But what if 2 people marry when they are young/immature and don't really understand the vows they took? People can change over the years. I'm no longer the same as when I was 18 (thank goodness).

Yes, cheating is wrong- but some people do change and want different things in life as they get older.
Perhaps the concept of marriage itself is antiquated ...

I think if 18 is old enough to vote, to enlist in the army, to drink, to get your licence etc, then you should be old enough to be able to understand what vows in basic English mean. Marriage is as serious as any of the above, and I think it does people a disservice if you suggest at 18 that they don't understand that marriage means for life.

You do have a point though that the concept of marriage itself may be antiquated.

But what if 2 people marry when they are young/immature and don't really understand the vows they took? People can change over the years. I'm no longer the same as when I was 18 (thank goodness).

Ideally, their parents would make some attempt at impressing the gravity of the situation upon them.

There's no great reason to get married at 18 anymore. The elders have well and truly gotten over their shock at pre-marital sex.

You do have a point though that the concept of marriage itself may be antiquated.

It's the preferred route to bring children into the world.

I have a dear friend who went through this scenario about 5 years ago. Everyone knew before she did. My friend and her husband divorced as did the OW and her husband. Family accepted her completely but the OW still to this day does not come to events where my friend will be in attendance.

I’d say it’s difficult to forgive someone for hurting a person you love ie the ex but also people can’t help who they fall in love with and nobody knows the nitty gritty of anyone else’s relationship especially their sex life. Things change and move on and if the cheater is happier with the new partner then you’d have to accept that and welcome them to a certain extent as someone who makes a family member happy or risk losing everyone.

Some people are immature at 18, others are not. My grandmother was married with a child at 18 and my grandparents stayed together for life (until Grandad died).

I, on the other hand, was still immature at 18, and really quite naive (protected childhood). I thought I knew it all and I knew nothing.
Still, I didn't get married at 18 though! Phew.

Name change here as I know I'll be slated.
I am the OW. I met my husband 20 years a go and when I started a relationship with him although I knew he was married I was led to believe he was separated. By the time I found out I was head over heels in love. His wife lived abroad, it was easy not to think about her or his children and within weeks of us starting a relationship he asked for a divorce.
I am so ashamed of how our relationship began and the ramifications even 20 years later. His children very sadly have nothing to do with him after years of his ex doing her best to make sure they know what a bastard he is and my husband has had 2 break downs over the years because of the stress.
I was young and niave when I met my husband and only when I had my own children did I begin to really feel awful for what we did to his ex. People may question mine and my husbands morals but I honestly believe we met and formed an instant connection and are soulmates. However we both wish he had finished his marriage before starting our relationship. His marriage was over in his eyes and had been in trouble for a long time but that is no excuse.
I have never doubted him or not trusted him over the 20 years we have been together despite what others may think.
In Answer to original question. Should I be accepted in to the family? Well, my husband's Dad told him he wanted nothing to do with me or him ever again when he told him. Eventually he came round though, it's his son, he's not going to disown him. It came at a price though. My husband's ex wife stopped my MIL and FIL from seeing the kids because she was so angry at them allowing me in their house and their relationship is also ruined with the grandchildren they loved.
I am fully accepted in the wider family and my husbands parents love me as their own now. Unfortunately his children still not. My own family and friends know the circumstance we got together and whilst none of the have ever condoned what happened they have accepted him and supported me. I will always feel the shame of being the OW though.
For me, I know life is not black and white. I would never condone an affair, what goes on in other people's lives and marriages is no body else's business. I hope my children never have an affair in the future. If they did though and the OW was clearly going to be a permanent fixture then yes I would accept her and likewise, if my OH had an affair and left me for OW i would encourage my children, for their sake to develop a relationship with OW. I know I'll be flamed on here but I thought I would put another perspective on it. Not all OW are evil. Not all men who have affairs are evil. Selfish yes but life goes on.

SarahNade your view of why marriages fail is so black and white.

Lots of people still grow up in a culture where you marry when you are 18 and stick with it even if you are barely compatible and spend the rest of your life talking about your "ball and chain". That's what my partner did and is now in his late twenties and already has a terrible marriage under his belt and a child he no longer lives with, because he did the done thing and settled for whoever he was with at the "right age". She was the wrong person. It's not her job to "make him happy", it's not somehow all her fault they were wrong for each other and therefore he should be allowed to cheat, but they WERE wrong for each other, and it was right for him to leave. He should never have married her.

Some couples stop making each other happy because they stop making time for each other, life gets hard etc but they do love each other and work together as people, some couples don't make each other happy because they are deeply incompatible and it was a mistake to think they could work together. Marriage counselling won't fix that, they would essentially be flogging a dead horse because they take an ill informed vow they shouldn't have made more seriously than actually being happy in life.

An affair is different from leaving and forming or to form a different relationship, second wives are not deluded by not playing deference to a relationship that did not work.

SoulSister of course the children won't accept you, their loyalty is to their mother. I'm sure you have no idea what you and their father have deprived them of, but it's a lot to them.

But what if 2 people marry when they are young/immature and don't really understand the vows they took? People can change over the years. I'm no longer the same as when I was 18 (thank goodness).

Yes, cheating is wrong- but some people do change and want different things in life as they get older.

So leave your spouse, and sleep around to your heart's content. Or tell your spouse you intend on going out to find more suitable partners. It's the hiding it and the lying that's the issue, not leaving an unhappy situation.

I just went through this. Sister went through divorce 8 years ago. Her ex cheated on her and then hid assets during the divorce leaving DSis and their 3 children with virtually nothing. Now married with children to his mistress. He and family 2.0 came to my dad's funeral this weekend. I was cordial, but that is all. I was friendly with his children since it was not their fault that their parents were scumbags. My mom and my sister have a relationship with them due to the shared children. I, however, will never forgive him for my DSis's pain and ugliness shown to my sister and my mom.

In the end yes because the relationship would probably have failed with out the ow. And why begrudge a long term relationship. But I could imagine this would be very difficult. How about a scenario where your mum leaves your dad for his brother. (I low a situation where that was the case) And yes it was excepted by the kids at least.

june1007 why would the relationship have failed even without the ow?
Utter crap.

As has been said. It's simple you finish one relationship before starting another, there is no excuse for cheating.

And sgb I hate your spin on monogamy, thank goodness we don't all think like that.

Don't forget that sometimes it's a relief to the other spouse when a partner begins an affair and ends the marriage. It means that not only do you get out of a bad or unsatisfactory marriage, if you weren't the one who met a new partner first, you get to play the victim and win the sympathy, if you are the sort of person who wants to milk it.

Marriage has been all sorts of different things over the years but at its roots it has always been about men appointing themselves as owners of women and children. And, whatever form marriage has taken, it has always been subverted by some for various reasons. At present, it's a useful legal arrangement, particularly for women who have DC and drop out of the world of waged work for a time.

I would probably be civil but after a bloody long time, years.
I've seen it too many times where the man will lose touch with his children, particularly if they are teenagers or adults when it all kicks off. As time goes by he will have a distant relationship with his gc.

I’m not sure why the OW wouldn’t or shouldn’t be accepted but somehow the man gets out scotch free

It's not OW herself, it's the flaunting of the relationship. If you just see your brother or son on his own, you can gloss over the affair. If OW is sitting on his lap with her tongue down his throat in your living room, you can't.

Sashkin why on earth would you assume they would be doing that?

Yes yes yes. People have affairs for all sorts of reasons and we don’t know what went on in their marriage for him to stray.

If it was my parents I would not accept the OW or OM under any circumstances. They would never be allowed access to my child either. I would be extremely disappointed in the parent who had an affair but wouldn’t cut them out as they are my blood.

Of it was my siblings I’d be disappointed in them but would accept OW / OM. But I would be wary of them.

I think so much depends on individual unique circumstances. What was the relationship between the wife and family? is the OW potentially a better match? is there children involved? Do they go on to have kids of their own etc? it all depends. It's not a black and white situation

This thread is very interesting indeed. I can't help thinking that, if someone does have an affair with a married man or has a one night stand, it would be better if they don't tell anyone at all.

November I was exaggerating for rhetorical effect. Most new couples will display some kind of affection in public though, especially when one is being introduced to the other's family (which is generally seen as a bit of a milestone in the relationship).

Fact remains that people will turn a blind eye to things they disapprove of to maintain family relationships, but they don't want to think the errant family member is completely unrepentant. And bringing your mistress to family events looks pretty unrepentant. "He's not even sorry!", "doesn't she have any shame?" etc.

Same as people turning a blind eye to their sister committing benefit fraud when they think she's living on beans and toast, but then considering shopping her when she brags about her fourth luxury holiday of the year.

It's not necessarily a view I hold, as it happens, but I can follow the logic.