To think not everyone wants to live a long time?

[jennymanara]

I am friends with someone who works in health education and we have talked about this. She thinks that anyone who is not very depressed wants to live a long time, and all they need is to know how to do this.

I think a lot of people actually do not want to live a long time. Even for many physically healthy people very old age can be a harsh time. Many people are very lonely, constant bereavements is an ordinary part of the territory, and seeing loved ones die from painful illnesses is tough.

Well when you say “live a long time” my first reaction isn’t seeing loved ones die of painful illnesses - that’s a very pessimistic view of life.

I think of having a nice retirement with my husband, enjoying nature, walks, travel and my garden seeing my kids grow up, grandkids.... etc.

I agree. We have to die of something. I don’t really think about what age I might die (my children are adults and fully independent). I hope for a good death. A good death being one in which the final illness is short enough to get my affairs in order and say goodbye, but not totally unexpected to leave my family shocked. And I would most hope that the quality of life right until just before that last, short illness is generally good.

To me, a good death is more important than a long life.

@museumum I used to think the same as you until I watched a number of elderly relatives live into their late nineties. Then I changed my mind.

I don’t. One side of my family has form of dropping dead from undiagnosed, asymptotic heart disease whilst appearing to be in robust health. Since it happened to one of my parents and also to their parent, I think there’s at least a chance it will happen to me.

Very traumatic for whoever finds the body, of course, but I rather hope this will be my MO. And if it means not living until I’m 80/90, I’d rather that than end up senile, decrepit, crippled with aches and pains, and confined to a chair in some nursing home forgotten about. And, as you say, watching everyone I love die before me.

And if you live into your late nineties and are sociable with a lot of family and friends, you will witness people die with long and painful illnesses, and probably watch at least one loved one deteriorate with dementia. Old age is tough.

YANBU. I hope to live long enough to see my kids independent and living their own lives. If I get to meet a grandkid or 2 that would be a bonus. To be in my 90's, living in a home with severe dementia like my Mum - no thanks. Mid 70's would have served me well I think.

I only want to live as long as I'm still capable. If I can look after myself and maintain independence then fine. I don't want to waste away, unable to do anything for myself, having family watch me go.

Our family had two of the generation of my grandparents live to their 90s. One was 100% active and social till a short aggressive cancer at 94. The other was housebound largely for about a decade until she died at 99. She was ready to go by then but still enjoyed her great grandkids visiting and her favourite tv.
You can’t preduct how hard your life will be in your 90s anymore than you can predict bereavement heartache illness or disability at any point in life.

I think most people want to live a happy and healthy life for as long as possible. I don’t think most people want to live for a long time if their quality of life is going to be significantly reduced, whether that is due to poor health/ disability or due to a lack of social opportunities and positive relationships with friends/ family or days out etc.

I would agree that poor physical health isn’t the only reason somebody may not want to live a long life and that those who feel socially deprived and lonely may not feel they want to keep going. But I think if there was the option of enriching one’s life and filling it with meaningful relationships, social interactions and experiences most people would choose that over death. Death might feel preferable over chronic loneliness but I still think a long life full of happy and meaningful relationships would be preferable over that.

I don’t think many older people who are physically healthy and fulfilled with regular contact with family/ friends and genuinely meaningful, close relationships alongside opportunities to engage with enjoyable leisure activities are hoping they don’t live a long life.

But I do agree that social and emotional wellbeing is as important as physical wellbeing and that the lack of either one in old age may be enough for some elderly people not to want their life to drag on.

I'm with Butchy

I am hoping in future I won't have doc visits because I am not interested in seeing the cholesterol results or whatever. My friend's mum died at 75, seemingly in robust health, always charging about doing stuff. She died in a chair, reading a book quietly. Terrible shock for my friend but that's how I'd want to go.

after my dad died of cancer, I would rather go suddenly and I'd much rather mum go suddenly. The suffering is terrible.

I also just don't want to watch the world go on and on and on....

"But I think if there was the option of enriching one’s life and filling it with meaningful relationships, social interactions and experiences most people would choose that over death."

my mum has all this but would much rather die. She's 81. Last heart attack she had, dad was still alive, she was 75, and actually quite disappointed that she survived it. We both imagine death to be nice and peaceful, or just complete nothing though. We don't imagine hell or anything like that.

@museumum I am not even talking about poor health. My gran lived until she was 98 and it was only in the last few months she needed help with any personal care. But she had watched all her peers die, had nursed her husband, had seen her closest friend deteriorate with dementia and die, etc. Even if you are old and healthy, a lot of your peers will not be.
My gran had her adult children and grandchildren, and great grandchildren, but she said she did miss having all her friends and relatives of her age to talk to. Any new friends she made about her age died within about a year of her making friends.
There was a period of time where her entire social life seemed to consist of going to constant funerals.

What strikes me most about these long-lifers is that it isn't universal to their family.

They will watch their parents, aunts and uncles, cousins, siblings, then their own children all one by one, die before them.

I wouldn't want to watch my own children die of old age. That's the very opposite of hope.

I don’t want to live to an age where I need to go into a home/suffer dementia. I also don’t want to see my siblings or even children (I had two of my children whilst at university, so quite young) die of age related illness before me.

I work in health care now and see how poorly the elderly can be treated and I don’t want that. On the other hand I have children and hopefully one day grandchildren, so I’m sure my opinion will change and I’ll want to see them reach adult milestones and spend as much time with them as I can.

I don’t work in MH but in the emergency department and someone saying they don’t want to live a good old age does automatically send alarm bells ringing because there isn’t much room for nuance.

You're not unreasonable. People sometimes have enough of life and are quite happy to exit it when the time comes. Personally, I find the idea of living to be very old (90+), horrible but we don't know until we get there. A lot depends on individual state of health, mobility, independence. and how much we enjoy our day to day lives.

I will always want to be only one year older than I am. If I am 121, then 122 would he my limit, but only til I get there.
The fact is, being old sounds horrible til you get there, then it is almost the same as yesterday.
I have a family member who said very solemnly that they wouldn't want to.live if they were 'disfigured'. Because that seemed like the worst thing they could think of.
Til it happened. Then, of course they meant 'severely disfigured' which means, 'more disfigured than me'.
These sort of hypothetical situations are rarely fruitful because no one really knows how that will feel about aging, or disfigurement.
Same argument about euthanasia. You can say what you think you will feel, but might not feel the same when you get there.

That's very true Hazel. My auntie has always stated that if she develops dementia she will kill herself as she watched her father die with Alzheimer's. Now she has mild/moderate dementia, a horrible quality of life that is very limited and has lost most of her independence. She still has plans for suicide (including exactly how) but only when she 'gets worse'. I suspect she will gradually slip deeper into dementia until she is unable to carry out her plan effectively.

I have MS and I think if I'd been presented with the facts of how I live now before I was diagnosed, I'd have said I'd rather be dead. But I am quite happy and content with my quality of life and have no plans to off myself. When change is very gradual it's easier to adjust to. Saying that, I hope I die in my 60s or 70s because I think my quality of life would be very bad by then and dh would probably have preceded me (I've no wish to carry on without him).

Much depends on physical and mental health IMO.

I want to live for as long as I can with "quality" life.

I lost my husband last year at the age of 38. My honest opinion is that once my children are sorted in life and have their own families I won’t mind if I go.

I think most people want to live a happy and healthy life for as long as possible. I don’t think most people want to live for a long time if their quality of life is going to be significantly reduced, whether that is due to poor health/ disability or due to a lack of social opportunities and positive relationships with friends/ family or days out etc.

This^. It's all about quality of life, not quantity. I'd rather live in good health to 80 and drop dead, than live to 95, having spent 15 years in poor health and lonely and isolated. Extreme old age (over 90 say), looks pretty awful to me. There are people who are still mentally with it and who are still leading full and interesting lives (the Queen, Sir David Attenborough, the late Diana Athill), but I really fear dementia or becoming old frail and sitting in a heap in a chair with well-meaning, kind but patronising people calling 'My love' and shouting at me.

Somewhere in the middle. My Nan lived until 93 and her final years were awful. My died at 61 due to ovarian and stomach cancer and her suffering was horrific. I honestly can’t believe we allow people with terminal illness to suffer in the way she did. She starved to death, it took a month.

Mid 70s, ideally with no awful illness causing terrible pain.

If I end up in the same boat as my mum I’ll end it myself because I couldn’t put my children through that. My mum believed she would miraculously get better up until about 48 hours before she died. I have a very different outlook since that. If I’m ever diagnosed with terminal cancer and my children are adults and self sufficient I won’t be having any treatment. At some point living as long as possible stops being the ideal.

I'm disabled and chronically sick. I won't last forever anyway because of my illnesses but I definitely don't want to, either. I figure I need ten years to see my kids into adulthood, and another decade on top of that would probably be sufficient to see both of them doing what they wanted to do with their lives. Maybe grandkids.

But if I didn't have kids I'd pretty much happily go now. Or is give it ten years because me and my partner would probably go off and do some interesting shit together first.

Nope, the elderly want to live just as long as the young do - they are NOT different

We all want to live without pain, in good health and not watch our loved ones die.

My life as a young person was to watch family die, friends die, multiple ill health issues. When you're older yes, even more of my family will die.

I don't think we should be 'othering'