Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

I have actually been in this situation. the unions actively discourage employment tribunals and related stuff.

And , on the subject of sacking , I am not sure why silly wants there to be loads of sacked teachers, but I doubt many people in any profession knows anyone who has been sacked. It's pretty rare in any sector.

I do actually know of three sacked teachers, but obviously am not about to share the details on here.

Yet again, another way for teachers to moan. We’re so put upon and bullied, more than anyone else, yet the evidence doesn’t show that.

No, what this demonstrates is yet again, people write incorrect things like this:-

I think another consideration that was certainly a factor when I worked in teaching is that you are virtually unsackable once you’ve survived 2 years which isn’t the case in many other professions.

Teachers reply saying that simply is not true, and are then accused of moaning!

People saying things that are blatantly untrue about a job I do and they don’t SHOULD be challenged on it.

That’s not moaning.

Piggy. It’s not up to unions to decide, if you have a strong case that you genuinely believe in you could follow it up.

A genuine question dorset : do you know that education doesn't have a high number of CDs/ ETs?

I have googled and can't find much.

The unions will try to negotiate a settlement agreement with a school. Teachers usually agree to a gagging clause in return for a good reference so they can move on with their lives.

Fedup. We moved on from that post some time ago. What we were discussing was that posters then stated that plenty of teachers get sacked and many are managed out/pushed out with no reason.

I merely pointed out that the evidence doesn’t back up the statements that unfair dismissal is rife in education. Therefore, you’re right, when someone writes something that’s not true it should be challenged.

Which is exactly what I did. I was then called arrogant for daring to do so, despite working in employment legislation and therefore making a statement about my area of expertise.

You see where I’m going...?

How many people wait to be sacked in other jobs? The days of instant sacking are over in most jobs.

Performance management is a slow process, and that journey allows people within all sorts of jobs to quit before they're actually sacked.

I know several teachers who've gone before they were pushed, following performance management issues. Two absolutely needed to go, one was very questionable and more about unpopularity with people that counted, than performance.

@Piggy

Where did I say I wanted there to be loads of sacked teachers ?

I was asking for examples of sacked teachers. No one has claimed to have been sacked . No one has given any examples of knowing someone sacked when they shouldn’t have been .

I think the assertion that virtually unsacksble is accurate.

You clearly didn't read my post that said I know of 3.

And just so I have this right ...

There is a massive shortage of teachers

But schools are deliberately ‘managing out’ well performing teachers for no good reason!?

I understand the comment about wanting cheaper NQT may be raised ... but surely if schools are carrying high vacancies they still won’t be over budget?

silly look at the link I posted, fill your boots with misconduct hearings.

@Piggywaspushed

I saw you said you know of 3 but didn’t give specifics... so those are 3 good teachers who were sacked for no good reason

I genuinely am not going to engage in details. Why on earth you need to know is beyond me. But you began ages ago with the idea that teachers are unsackable. Not unfair sacking.

Noble. I think we’d all agree that the misconduct hearings in your link are valid. None of us would expect any less when they relate to teachers having sex with pupils, taking indecent photos etc. And those were just the first few 🥺

Sillt , yes! Expensive teachers are being managed out. With a view to employing cheaper ones. But you do understand schools may then increase class sizes, axe subjects and spend money on supply surely?

My phone really does not like your user name...

But schools are deliberately ‘managing out’ well performing teachers for no good reason!?

Being expensive, being part time, being the union rep.

I think we’d all agree that the misconduct hearings in your link are valid

Then we agree that teachers are not ‘virtually unsackable’ after two years in post.

dorset no one would follow up a CD case, or bullying, or whatever without union support. That would be mad.

There are competency proceedings silly. Nasty things in any job. Most teachers leave before they go too far. As would people in any job. Hence not sacked.

For someone who claims to be an expert in employment law your attention to detail is very poor dorset

@Piggywaspushed

Ok what I mean is virtually unsackable unless committing a criminal offence!!

I can’t see any on that link for poor performance!!

Or am looking in the wrong place?

If teachers are frequently sacked for minor errors or a dip in performance then I apologise .

Noble. I never said they were unsackable.

My points were around all the supposed unfair dismissals, constructive dismissals that never seem to reach an ET.

and yes Piggy, hundreds of employees go to ET’s without a union. Not sure why you think it would be madness to do that when those same unions, according to you, are telling teachers not to exercise their rights.

Doesnt really matter what you think Silly. Data doesnt back you up.

And I'm still waiting for my apology.

You and Dorset are just embarrassing yourselves. It's really quite strange.