Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

I would never say “no job is as stressful as teaching”, but I would say that many other professions that are as stressful as teaching command more respect from society in general.

This old quote is a bit tired and boring but can be how it feels sometimes:

“If a doctor, lawyer, or dentist had 40 people in his office at one time, all of whom had different needs, and some of whom didn’t want to be there and were causing trouble, and the doctor, lawyer, or dentist, without assistance, had to treat them all with professional excellence for nine months, then he might have some conception of the classroom teacher’s job.”

I think the teacher mindset (and I'm a retired teacher) comes from the fact that for so long we were constantly slated publicly by the government. Every single day it seemed, the entire population was being told how finish we all were. And that in the end was reflected in the way or pupils and parents saw us. So yes, it was very easy to become defensive. Add into that that most people seemed to think we only worked when the children were in front of us, and the need to explain that our job want all holidays and home at 3pm felt imperative.

I'm out of the teaching bubble now, and appreciate just how hard and stressful many people's jobs are. But they don't feel the need to explain that because no-one's out there telling everyone that they're useless and lazy.

Finish= rubbish.

They do work very hard but the also get 13wks a year off and a day for Christmas shopping
I don`t know of anyone in another profession who are that lucky.

I'm a teacher, and I agree with you. The only defence I have is that people often seem to assume that teaching is easy, so the onus is on us to convince them it's not. Whereas I think nursing is quite obviously very hard, and policing etc. I'd imagine your lawyer friend gets at least double my wages.

What's particularly stressful about teaching is that you're dealing with all 30 'patients' in one go, in one patient room, with no help , whilst making the room look pretty and taking all their stuff home with you every day and weekend . Stir into the mix the fact that many of them can't or won't comply with you and that the adults responsible for them sometimes don't do a great job of looking after them when they're not with you , leaving you to pick up the pieces when they are.

Just imagine threads like this about solicitors, or accountants, or lawyers...

No, they don't happen. It's little wonder teachers feel defensive given the unpleasantness they're subjected to.

And I maintain the OP is goady given some of the unpleasant replies already.

...and want= wasn't! I hate Swype!

I’m a teacher. Most of my friends are teachers. None of us have that attitude.

I think perhaps the reason teachers sometimes lay it on thick about the stress element is as a defence mechanism to all the tiresome comments about how wonderful our holidays are ...

But they are great holidays, and almost no one else gets them or anything like them. It is odd that you see that as something you need a defence mechanism for.

And the 'not getting paid for holidays' thing is a bit of a nonsense really. None of our employers are calculating our salaries as if we worked 52 weeks a year and then paying that same salary for 46 weeks' work. A decent amount of money still goes into a teacher's bank account on a regular schedule throughout the year.

Do we really want our society and lives to be a race to the bottom?

I don’t know any teachers who gets a day off for Christmas shopping or anybody who spends a significant amount of their unpaid holidays working.

Just my two pence worth. I think teachers and nurses are both fucking amazing and people who I'm in awe of.
I think you get 'competitive stress' wherever you go.

@ilovesooty I'm genuinely not trying to be goady. But it's hard not to get irritated by the rhetoric of 'you don't work as hard as I do' which is what I seem to keep hearing from teacher friends. I don't feel the need to tell other professional groups that they don't work as hard as I do, because frankly, I'm sure they are under pressure too in different ways and it's not a race to the bottom of 'who has the most stressful job'.

And yet the issue of holidays. I get completely that teachers have to do some work during holidays, but there is no doubt that yet they do get more time off in the year than other professional groups do, even if they have to work through some of it. And I doubt many teachers are working on Christmas day etc as they get all bank holidays off, which can't be said for a lot of professions.

I think I've come across that attitude once or twice in my life from other teachers - no more.
I've also seen and heard it from people in other professions including doctors, solicitors, nurses, childcare assistants, shop workers, etc.

I have taught for 20+ years now and don't really hear this. Obviously sometimes teacher friends have a moan just like everyone is liable to do at times with their jobs, but never heard the whole 'we work more/harder than anyone else' stuff.

I do think places like MN is a difficult one in that sense for teachers though. People often start threads criticising teachers, schools and other teaching staff and you do then end up with teachers on here who will defend their job, etc and clarify to people that the job really isn't 9-3, 13 weeks off a year for paid holidays, etc. and then they end up being given grief for it.

Teachers get such a bashing on mumsnet. I see an awful lot of reverse snobbery on here.

Both my parents were teachers and I seriously considered and trained to be a college lecturer. Several of my friends are. I couldn't do it. I teach the odd hour here and there and it leaves me exhausted. Each hour's lesson takes many hours to prepare for. Taking work home late into the night, half terms off forget it, catching up/trying to get ahead, maybe one or two weeks in the middle of the summer 6.

Looking after 30 kids at a time, their safeguarding, managing behaviour, trying not to let the disruptive ones ruin it for the studious ones, trying to get knowledge into the brains of kids who are not motivated to learn in an environment that we know is suboptimal for learning, dealing with student and parent complaints all for much less pay than the lawyers working the equivalent hours... and despite being able to count off the top of my head 16 people I'm friends with actively in teaching at the moment, I don't hear them moaning and whinging in the way you seem to do. I see a lot of them burning out and leaving the profession though.

I think it's more that no other profession are constantly told their jobs are cushty and therefore don't feel the need to defend themselves.

It's draining tbh.

A day off for Christmas shopping??? Never happened in my 17yrs of teaching.

There are actually studies which suggest the way teachers work (loads of hours in termtime with regular holidays) is actually worse for mental health/burnout than doing the same number of hours spread evenly across the year.

Given the numbers of teachers leaving the profession, I think it should be obvious to most people that there are big issues in teaching.

That doesn't mean other jobs aren't stressful, but it does perhaps suggest that there is something specifically wrong with the state of teaching in this country right now.

There are huge bursaries for people who want to train as secondary school teachers, and yet the drop out rates from PGCEs are also pretty high- and from personal experience, it's not about people going in for the money. A lot of drop outs are people who genuinely wanted to be teachers until the saw the reality of the job.

It is far from the only stressful job out there, but I think teachers get defensive, because a) a lot of people think they know how to do the job because they've gone to school, and b) a lot of people will make digs about the long holidays and "You only work 9-3" or whatever.

I'm a teacher and DP is a paramedic, after a year of bickering we have agreed it's a different stress. His is very full on at work and long, whereas my days are shorter and I'm never fully "off", the back of my mine is always thinking I should plan that lesson or I wonder if x has spoken up at home about his sexuality which we spent a whole hour crying about the other day. Neither of us chose our careers for an easy life, I do resent it though when teachers say how they are the only ones who feel stressed- if anything DPs job and nursing are far harder because its lives on the line

So @KitKat1985 what did you expect from this thread that hasn't been said before? Why the strike through?

The fact that the OP just had to put in the sentence about the holidays kind of proves part of what I was saying too. Everyone knows best. Everyone just can't quite help having a tiny dig.

But it's fine. Education and teaching is great. Loads of job opportunities right now. Come and have a go.

It's not a race to the bottom and to back up the points of others many teachers do acknowledge that other jobs are stressful. I've known just as many nurses/emergency service workers/solicitors/civil service employees to complain about their workplace and make it seem like theirs is the worst and yet I don't see any threads on them.

You just have to look at Mumsnet at certain times of the week/year to see why teachers are done in.
We do not have enough time in the week to complete everything we need to do, most of which is nonessential to the actual teaching. We then take stuff home. My cousin is in the army and has been in war zones, he has made comments about how stressful his job is but only when he's there, he doesn't bring the bloody Helmand Provence back when he's got his time off to tackle it.
We are under scrutiny constantly. Parents, SMT, pupils, local authorities, government, newspapers and websites.
Everyone thinks they can do our job because they have been to school. I've never assumed I could be a surgeon because I've had an operation or a midwife because I've had a baby.
Children and behavioural standards have changed.
Specialist provision is non existent. My stage partner has a class of 30 10 year olds, 8 of which have additional needs and she has no support.
Violent incidents are on the rise and, in most cases, nothing is done. Even buses have signs about violence not being tolerated and an offence.
The ever changing curriculums and goal posts. I've just got my head around teaching a particular way and it changes. Most other jobs don't have their core activities changed as frequently.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I enjoy my job and I am under no illusion that other jobs are equally stressful due to issues I am not aware of but I'd never be so howdy about them.

I have come across this attitude, yes, but mostly among teachers who've never done other jobs. I'm a career changer into teaching (I worked in the NHS before although not as a nurse). They are both hard jobs, but the media and the general public tend to be more rude and dismissive of teachers. Some people are the same about nurses too, I'm sure, but some are terribly grateful to them. I know I am!

a day for Christmas shopping

Can I come and work at that school!?! Where is this?

I know lots of teachers who aren't like this.

I do recognise the moany "type" but think maybe its younger less experienced teachers not the older competent ones.

Teaching is not the best paid job, though pro rata with holidays its better. Its hard work. I think they do need the holidays.

Im an accountant. Its not socially useful. Worked my ass off for 20 years so now do OK but throughout my 20s was on a fairly standard wage. Regular 5am starts, 8pm finishes when travelling. Am used to working late. Dont get long holidays. Im good at managing stress now but the job used to get me down when I was younger. I count myself as very lucky and privileged. I couldn't be a teacher or a doctor/ nurse.