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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Okay, about teachers...

999 replies

KitKat1985 · 28/09/2019 13:21

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

OP posts:
RETIREDandHAPPY · 30/09/2019 13:39

There seem to be a lot of teacher-haters.
I wonder if it is their offspring that are causing teachers to give up in despair?
Teachers can provide your children with a more secure future. They work more effectively if they are respected and supported.
If teaching is such an easy job, why are so few good people taking it on, and why are so many teachers giving it up?

NeverGotMyPuppy · 30/09/2019 13:40

A sacked teacher is unlikely to want to engage with the likes of you @silly.

You really are clutching at straws and you have yet to apologise for telling me I am saying things I'm clearly not.

Its deeply pathetic.

fedup21 · 30/09/2019 13:41

I think another consideration that was certainly a factor when I worked in teaching is that you are virtually unsackable once you’ve survived 2 years which isn’t the case in many other professions.

You are talking of things you know nothing about!

It is very easy to get rid of teachers. Especially expensive ones-they can be got rid of very quickly-a couple of poor observations and capability. I have seen it happen several times in the last few years.

It really annoys me when people say things that are simply not true to try and make a point!

KittyVonCatsington · 30/09/2019 13:50

And it really really annoyed me when I read Theresa May's last act in office was to give TEACHERS a pay rise!

If it helps dissipate your anger, no one on UPS 1, 2 or 3 in my school got the last pay rise from Theresa May, as my school couldn't afford it. No extra money was provided from Theresa May's last act to actually pay for this promise. It had to come out of schools already-in-the-red budgets (but that doesn't make for a good sound bite!)

You social workers do a wonderful job, by the way. Thank you.

CuckooCuckooClock · 30/09/2019 13:57

dorset you don’t know what you are talking about. Visit tes.com workplace dilemmas forum. Teachers having their careers destroyed by some ego maniac slt. The arrogance of thinking you actually know about this is astounding

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 14:11

Except the vast majority of people being taken through capability or performance management don’t believe they should be...doesn’t make it true. So a teacher saying it’s unfair on a forum doesn’t mean it is.

You sound very angry and are taking it very personally so I appreciate there may be some background for you. However, that doesn’t mean it applies to everyone.

Teachers are no different to any other employment sector. If so many were truly being unfairly dismissed, there would be a huge increase in tribunal outcomes in their favour.

NeverGotMyPuppy · 30/09/2019 14:17

'You sound very angry'

Hmm
CuckooCuckooClock · 30/09/2019 14:39

I’m not taking anything personally and if you read anger in my posts that’s your issue not mine.
I’m a really good teacher at an outstanding school and I’m very happy with my job. I’m just intelligent enough to see beyond my own experience. I guess not everyone is . . .

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 14:47

I’m just intelligent enough to see beyond my own experience. I guess not everyone is . .

And yet posters on here keep being told they can’t comment unless they’re a teacher.....assume that only works one way then!

Your comment was actually not about the teaching profession, it was about employment legislation. Funnily enough, that’s my profession but I’m also not allowed to comment on that because you then call me arrogant and tell me I have no idea what I’m talking about.

You see why these threads don’t turn out well for teachers when you’re trying to prove you’re not moany and complaining?

CuckooCuckooClock · 30/09/2019 14:48

Who sounds angry now?

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 14:52

Well not me because I’m not calling you arrogant. Just repeating back your words.

silly248 · 30/09/2019 15:05

@NeverGotMyPuppy

Disagree entirely. If loads of unfairly sacked teachers I’m sure they would want to share their experiences.

But then how about you ? How many teachers do you personally know that have been sacked and for what reasons.

Not interested in managed out of a school

Only those sacked

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 15:30

Noble. Looking at just the first few listings on your link, it’s a good job too! 🥺

Piggywaspushed · 30/09/2019 15:30

Of course we don't know many teachers who have been sacked! Because they HAVE been managed out. And this is happening to perfectly competent teachers. Routinely.

Alittleodd · 30/09/2019 15:31

Having been in school middle leadership and a union rep (not at the same time - funnily enough they don't go well together) it has been my experience that schools tend to get around employment legislation by making the lives of teachers they no longer want around so uncomfortable that they are forced out - it's all easily justifiable and nearly impossible to prove. The teachers I have seen experience it are so broken by the end that they don't have the will to take anything further.

Add that to the list of reasons I'm no longer working in schools.

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 15:31

Piggy. In which case they could bring a claim of constructive dismissal. Unless of course they weren’t as competent as they thought and there were genuine grounds for the performance management.

noblegiraffe · 30/09/2019 15:33

I know a teacher who would have definitely won a constructive dismissal case who didn’t do anything about it as they immediately got a better job at a different school.

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 15:42

Noble. With all due respect, nobody knows if they would definitely win a tribunal unless they actually pursued it. In any case, it’s rare that anyone knows all of the information relating to a particular case and rightly so as it should remain confidential.

CuckooCuckooClock · 30/09/2019 15:53

Well some of us here have done union casework and know damn well that constructive dismissal is rife in schools.
I know of a case where a head of department was instructed to give one of his team an inadequate score on his observation. He refused because he observed this teacher and said his lessons were good. The following week a member of slt observed to head of department and, surprise surprise, have him inadequate. Both teachers quit that year.

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 15:59

Cuckoo. In which case, where are all the successful ET claims?

noblegiraffe · 30/09/2019 16:10

nobody knows if they would definitely win a tribunal unless they actually pursued it

Are you and your employment legislation colleagues incompetent then? Because some cases are obvious.

CuckooCuckooClock · 30/09/2019 16:10

Nobody is making claims so there aren’t any

LolaSmiles · 30/09/2019 16:14

We really are clutching at straws now.

We've had "trawl staffroom boards to try and argue teachers think their lives are worse than anyone else".Now we're onto misinformation about pay increases
Now flat denial of how managing staff out works because they could that been that good.

There's a hell of a lot of so called experts who are very bitter and over invested in a sector they don't work in.

Dorset You're being disingenuous on claims of constructive dismissal because it's an almost impossible case for any employee to bring (teacher or not). Failing to acknowledge that, or deliberately choosing not to for the sake of having a pop at teachers, doesn't strengthen your argument.

I've seen perfectly good teachers and decent people driven to nervous breakdowns that had them signed off for 6 months only for them to come back, get more pile ons and then they left profession for good.
I've seen staff disappear one day, never come back in, never spoken about again and nobody dares mention what we know is the case: that SLT didn't like being questioned on their latest new initiative and wanted to replace anyone who asked questions with compliant NQTs.

On another thread, I was talking with some non teachers about the rise of certain large MATs. What's interesting is that from the parental description of certain features, I was able to deduce the likely staff body. Two parents said that matched their child's school. I know multiple teachers who have faced managing out and outright bullying in certain regimes, including some excellent school leaders who put the kids first and advocated for parents but we're shoved out the back door because the corporate brand didn't like their style.

Unfortunately, as this thread shows, there are a worrying number of people not in education who are so fixated on shit stirring and mud slinging to suit their own little stories that they would sooner deny the reality of working in education than consider that maybe they dont actualy know what they are talking about.

Dorsetdays · 30/09/2019 16:29

We’re talking about employment legislation, that’s not specific to the education sector and neither are they exempt from it.

It demonstrates absolute double standards when you say nobody outside of teaching is allowed to comment on anything to do with teaching because we don’t know what we’re talking about, yet you can comment on my sector and then when I point out what you’re saying is inaccurate, you try to tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. It’s almost funny.

Your stories are just that, anecdotal stories. The evidence isn’t there to back it up. If bullying and constructive dismissal is so rife in education that would be reflected in successful ET claims because even if only a small minority lodged a claim it would still be higher than other sectors.

Yet again, another way for teachers to moan. We’re so put upon and bullied, more than anyone else, yet the evidence doesn’t show that.

What strikes me is the teachers on here calling other posters idiots, arrogant, telling them to F off etc. Yet, we’re not the ones sitting in jobs where you claim to be working 60 hour weeks without thanks. Just from this thread alone it’s clear those hours are not the norm yet you stay in those jobs, despite telling us there are numerous vacancies available. 🤷🏼‍♀️

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