Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

Even if teachers spent one week out of every school holiday block at school preparing, they still get far more holidays than any other profession known to man.

My company allows LoA on request, at the time you want to plan it. Its pretty common to be able to take unpaid leave. Its less common to have unpaid leave mandated as teachers do (common in construction and related, less so elsewhere).

@KitKat1985

You are absolutely NBU

Teachers carry on so much about how hard they have it / tired they are.
I don’t understand why the ones that seem to hate it so much don’t leave ?
They are all obviously intelligent, well educated CRB clear! There must be loads of other better jobs out there...
Unless actually they do think that overall their remuneration is better than a comparable job.

They are leaving though. That’s the problem. Those of us left have more to do with less time.
That’s why 2 positions are taken by teach first in my department and another’s a supply.

But... as others have said... let’s leave this for now and acknowledge that lots of our caring professions are radically undervalued in society. Nurses, social workers, teachers and the rest... our jobs matter.

I don’t understand why the ones that seem to hate it so much don’t leave ?

They are. That’s why there is a massive recruitment and retention crisis.

It’s massively damaging to children’s education to be taught by supply teachers, or non specialists especially in early years and as they approach GCSE/A’levels.

What would you suggest to sort this out?

I think it’s generally agreed that teachers are the ones who are hit hardest by the Sunday feeling.

And they are leaving in droves. That says it all.

@SmileEachDay

But why do the ones who complain not leave?

I understand if you don’t like you job leaving to do something preferable. I don’t understand staying and just complaining.

I understand if you don’t like you job leaving to do something preferable. I don’t understand staying and just complaining.

What about if you’re not complaining?

What if, someone says something along the lines of...

teachers say that

'no other profession has to work as hard as us'

And to this, teachers reply saying

1. I have never said that.
2. We do work hard-like most other people.

Which is what most on this thread have said. That’s not complaining, is it? That’s just pointing out that the first person is talking inflammatory nonsense.

I think that the general feeling that teachers complain a lot about how tired / stressed / hard done by there most come from somewhere though!
I can think of no other profession that has the complaining reputation teachers have .

No Smoke without fire

I think there are many parents that have dispaired at lack of homework marking, same lesson topics year after year that does make one wonder what all these extra hours are for.

So silly, you would like the recruitment and retention crisis to increase?

I think your PP rather proves why teachers 'complain' : parents who think they know better with dubious spelling feeling they have the right to criticise pedagogical decisions.

I think most people complain sometimes that their jobs are stressful/ tiring/ hard work. I have complained to friends about my teaching job, not because I think it’s worse or more stressful than other jobs but because sometimes it’s helpful to vent by having a rant and a moan. I have friends and family in other professions who will have a moan to me about their jobs too.

I do find though that sometimes when I am just having a normal moan at the end of a hard week to certain friends/ family I am met with ‘Yes, but you can’t complain because at least you get all those holidays.’ I think some people feel like because of those holidays it’s unreasonable for teachers to complain at all and they will get picked up on for venting in a way some other professions don’t. I think some people think teaching is a cushty job with short hours, long holidays and cute kids and feel the need to try and rebut any teacher who is having a normal rant about work, which will then cause the teacher to become defensive and over-stress the difficult aspects of the job vs the positive and rewarding ones.

@Piggy

Are you a teacher?

So you think a lack of parental literacy should have an impact on complaints made?

fedup21
I agree with you.

Someone makes inflammatory stupid claims
Teachers reply saying stop being inflammatory and stupid because you don't know what you're taking about
People turn up saying "see! See! They are always complaining".

There's no having a sensible discussion with fools.

Then again, silly further proves this point: someone who hasn't a clue about the job sees fit to offer their wisdom.

In answer to your questions about where the image of whining teachers comes from silly - usually idiots show their lack of knowledge and spout silly inflammatory crap based on their own chips and stereotypes, and when staff say anything to challenge then they use that as more so called proof that their silly nonsens is correct.
Then add in that people who talk silly nonsense tend to gravitate to other people who haven't a clue (just like the chunks of society who think they know better than scientists, teachers, legal experts, healthcare professionals etc because they have social media and Google) and there's a perfect storm of idiots patting other idiots on the back.

No, *sillY8, I just think from your posts that you think you know better about teaching and learning.

Oops : silly .

Is the silly nonsense a deliberate pun? Because it is glorious!

How about teachers said all parents moan? The most moany group of people I encounter on Facebook are , hands down, parents. Ergo, all parents moan.

I’m probably a bit unique because I’ve done both jobs. They are both utterly stressful in their way. I’m a midwife on an inpatient ward, where 13 hour days with no break and little chance to drink or use the toilet are common. There can be 20 women plus babies (up to 40 patients) and 4 of us to care for them. Paperwork is insane (why does it take an hour to complete discharge paperwork???), as well as the sheer weight of responsibility and work to do. Babies on observations, women who need observations, patients with illnesses. No HCA to back you up because she’s off sick. No ward clerk after 5 pm so your care is interspersed with opening the door and answering the phone. Abusive patients, relatives, etc can also make it difficult.
Teaching is also incredibly stressful. There is the constant scrutiny, ever changing goalposts, accountability, the unbelievable pressure of performing the role day in, day out no matter how you are feeling. Dealing with behaviour problems (apart from the police and armed forces, there can’t be a lot of jobs where the majority of your clients are actively trying to prevent you from doing your job), etc. The teaching contract that stipulates a minimum number of hours, not a maximum, so your employer can ask you to work 24/7 if they deem it necessary to fulfill your role. Marking and planning at weekends and during holidays, particularly half terms. Fighting the perception of ‘finish at 3 and 6 weeks off in the summer’ that is still pervasive. Never feeling like you finish anything, only put it off til tomorrow.
The big difference for me though, is that at the end of my shift I go home. I might leave later because of some issue, but when I leave, my work is done. I work 37.5 hours a week unless I choose to do overtime, and I know that the rest of the week is mine. I might get less holiday time, but I’m not bound to school holidays so I can go away when it’s cheaper. Admittedly I sleep for at least one of my days off, but my daughters say I’m much nicer to know from the perma-stressed ratbag they dimly remember from my days as a teacher. Teaching is relentless, you never get away from it. It chewed me up and spat me out, and it’s really sad that so many other teachers are feeling the same.

@silly248. Same lesson topics year after year. This makes no sense. The curriculum and syllabus and the basis of the actual subjects dictates the topics. Plus in the years since the Give reforms teachers have had to adapt to new Linear A levels and new IGCSEs which affects the teaching in the lower years. You clearly have no idea and that’s the problem- everyone thinks they know how it works. I love my job and don’t generally complain. I’m forever fending off tedious comments from other people along the lines of ‘ Oh you must have another holiday coming up any minute/ you’re barely st work blah blah versus ‘ I wouldn’t do what you do for all the tea in China’.

@piggy

I think you are trying to deflect from your frankly appalling opinion.

I think your initial response to me is very telling, that you see illiteracy as an indicator of how worthwhile a parents complaint would be.

Have a think about this.

Just because someone is less educated it does not mean that their complaint is less worthy

Teacher here!

-I don’t know any teacher who got a day off for Xmas shopping
-our holidays are unpaid
-I spent most of my summer hols collecting free furniture/used tyres/cable reels/stones/old bits of decking and then painting and stealing them all before taking them into school to furnish our dilapidating outdoor area. Then I had to help the care taker transport desks to my classroom which wasn’t a classroom last year from a nearby school who were throwing them away in my car just so I had enough desks for my kids in September.
-my school desktop doesn’t work properly and so many times already I have lost so much work with it constantly shutting down of its own accord adding so many extra hours to my lesson prep having to redo stuff
-I have 4 children with attendance less than 40%... if they don’t make greater than expected progress then I will fail my performance management
-I’m pretty sure one of my 5 year olds is bringing themselves to school on the bus
-I am currently feeding 3 of them out of my own pocket as they don’t seem to be getting fed breakfast
-I am chasing up all these safeguarding concerns most days
-one child doesn’t speak yet speech and language have too long a waiting list so won’t get seen for at least 8 months they’ve said
-on Thursday a parent swore at me and called me a “fat c*nt” because their cherub lost their jumper that hadn’t had their name written in it.
They came to school wearing it Friday because it was found at home. No apology was given.

I class this as one of my easier September by far.
Currently 3 hours into marking/planning with another few to go before I start in my subject coordinator stuff which I’m expected to do but am not paid for.

Sadly it wasn't piggy. I wish it was because then I could claim a level of comedic genius that I don't have.

I do honestly think people who haven't a clue on various topics tend to pat other people who haven't a clue on their back and then it all becomes some self-congratulatory ramblings that are immune from evidence and reasons.

It's the same reason that you can't debate or discuss with flat earthers or anti vaxxers

*sealing not stealing!

Whatever you think silly.