Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

Don’t think anyone started a thread asking why teachers don’t just leave and get an easier job? Bit of a misinterpretation there.

The OP asked if teaching was genuinely more stressful than any other profession based on the teachers she knows insinuating that.

The answer is no. No need for pages of justification and defensiveness (or anger because the only angry posts I’ve seen on here have come from those being defensive).

YABU, my niece teaches Y1 and has no TA in the classroom. She has 30 children including 2 autistic. One of the autistic children still wets himself and she’s expected to leave the classroom to change him leaving the other 29 children unsupervised.

To keep up with the workload and planning required she’s usually in school until 6.30pm having started at 8am.

The rest of the planning she does at home,

Yes she gets the holidays but am sure she’d sacrifice that for a TA in the classroom supporting a little boy who desperately needs a 1-1 and another TA who could provide additional support to other children,

The answer is no. No need for pages of justification and defensiveness (or anger because the only angry posts I’ve seen on here have come from those being defensive)

You’ve misunderstood how chat forums work Dorset. People say stuff and then other people say stuff back. Or are you thinking that teachers (as we’re a homogeneous mass) should just nominate one person to answer on our behalf?

But people will get defensive when people who know nothing about their job choose to make sweeping generalisations about it.

FWIW my niece loves her job and I doubt she’d say it’s more stressful than other jobs.

Doesn’t take away the fact that children are being failed due to cuts in staffing. I think personally I’d find that VERY stressful to see on a day to day basis.

@lunasorchid

Please don’t say nurses have an easier time. Unless you’ve been a nurse as well as a teacher, you can’t possibly know.

The point is, it’s not a competition about who has the hardest job.

No profession is a homogenous mass but the answer is still no, however you look at it.

Teaching as a whole is not the most stressful job. Sure, there may be certain roles or schools that create that but as a whole? Nope.

And when teachers on this thread are actually using the defence that serving members of the armed forces “don’t bring work home” from Helmand Province like they do it rather undermines your point.

I’ve been a nurse and a teacher.

Teaching was far more stressful

In the classroom you are ‘on stage’ continuously and dealing with multiple challenges all at the same time. You also take a lot of work home and are under threat of random observations with strangers making judgements on your performance.

In nursing, yes, there’s a lot going on, but you are not on stage in the same way. Nor are you dealing with 25 - 30 people all at exactly the same time. You might have a large number of people on the ward, but you are not dealing with every single one of them simultaneously.

Teaching in a school is insanely stressful and I much preferred working in ITU or A&E. Just couldn’t take the low wages and stupid shift times.

I just ignore the "we have it so tough" from teachers. A lot of people think that about their jobs. Most teachers just like most other professionals haven't worked outside their profession so they wouldn't know how hard it is to do other jobs. Most people I know who have changed jobs and gone into teaching tell me that there are stressful periods but also a lot of advantages and overall it isn't that different from their other professional careers (the exception to that is the friend who was an a+e doctor who is now a teacher and says it is much easier going obviously!).

Teaching as a whole is not the most stressful job.

I've yet to see a teacher claim it is. Even the Op doesn't claim that her teacher friends say it's the most stressful job, just that's how she perceives what they are saying.

Water. That was the AIBU the OP asked.

And when teachers on this thread are actually using the defence that serving members of the armed forces “don’t bring work home” from Helmand Province like they do it rather undermines your point

One person, who was quoting her cousin, did that.

The point most teachers have made is that we don’t think our job is the hardest. And that also, if you are not a teacher, it is difficult to understand how hard our job is.

Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech
So do they say it or don't they? "Vibe" isn't the same thing at all, that's you inferring.*

And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession* You are unfortunate in your circle of friends. I've only come across two teachers who've ever said this; once in the Guardian, once on MN.

A goady and bloody lazy thread, both the title, which generalises your perception of your friends to include all teachers and the pointlessness of comparing stress levels of professions.

Hang on.... recent research shows:

[[http://hrnews.co.uk/revealed-the-most-and-least-stressful-jobs/

Oh, nursing doesn't make the top five, so maybe your friends are right.

RE Nurses, their work is hard but they work three days a week and don't take any work home with them to do. It's easier to switch off.

I hate that I'm pointing this out but, unless a nurse is a part-time worker, working three days in a hospital equates to each 12-14hrs on a rolling rota of days or nights. Teachers don't work night shifts.

And if one or more of your patients die during your shift it isn't easier to switch off when you go home.

I don't think teaching is more stressful than nursing and vice versa. Both of these jobs are very very stressful just different types of stress. I'm surprised that people are trying to quantify which job is more stressful as if it's a competition?

I'm surprised that people are trying to quantify which job is more stressful as if it's a competition?

Like the OP?

@nursebuttercup
I suppose the point is, that in both jobs you work for a similar time each day, possibly with no toilet and lunch break but a teacher repeats that for 5 days and still needs to work at the weekend - physical work, not just head space.
Unless doing paid overtime, I assume a nurse does no more work until their next shift.
I think overall that is the only place of real comparison (and being completely undervalued and criticised by most people you come in contact with, while juggling the needs of 150 kids each day).

Teaching aside, why is it always a race to the bottom of who works more hours, takes the least annual leave and is most stressed? Shouldn't we be fighting AGAINST shitty working conditions rather than wearing them as a badge of honour?

Forgive me for the ignorance, but if you straight up refused to do above your contracted hours, would you get fired? I used to work in a professional field with much more vacancies than staff, and as a result, the working conditions were very good. Was rarely any overtime above 37.5 hours a week and if there was, several people just refused to do it and the client got told "sorry, we can't deliver today". The company knew if they overworked people, they would go to one of the dozens of other companies hiring - and for a better salary too. Those people still got promotions and payrises just like everyone else, it was totally normal.

Maybe if teachers just flat-out refused to work over 37.5 hours, and kids didn't get their work marked and failed their GCSEs, it would hammer home the point about the staffing crisis and lack of funds - rather than competing about who works the hardest.

Maybe if teachers just flat-out refused to work over 37.5 hours, and kids didn't get their work marked and failed their GCSEs, it would hammer home the point about the staffing crisis and lack of funds - rather than competing about who works the hardest.
Which sounds great until you consider that main reason for the job is wanting kids to do well and achieve.
Teachers aren't going to want to sacrifice the futures of the kids they care about to make some political point.

It would be much easier if people who haven't a bloody clue simply stopped being goady and making silly generalisations.

Maybe if teachers just flat-out refused to work over 37.5 hours, and kids didn't get their work marked and failed their GCSEs, it would hammer home the point about the staffing crisis and lack of funds - rather than competing about who works the hardest.

Sadly, not- I think teachers would just get fired.

There’s a bit in the terms and conditions about having to what whatever it takes to get the jobs done which is ambiguous.

The teachers I know are like this. Saying it’s annualised hours etc. Yes it’s hard but so is my job and many others like it. I don’t get it either. No fighting for the school holidays off is certainly a bonus. I don’t know why they seem to be so defensive. If they didn’t mention it all the time I wouldn’t think anything but because they always do it does make you think well is it that hard then?. Anyway they work hard I sure but no harder than me.

Well, the government knows that the people going into teaching are passionate and want to do the best by their kids (unlike the boring field I used to work in where people refused to do overtime) - so they'll probably always take advantage of that and never get the staffing levels so that teachers will work normal hours. They know they can get away with people accepting 60 hour weeks. Until they can't, when the crisis reaches breaking point, which it seems to have been at for years.

@BonnesVacances nurses are leaving. In droves. There's 40,000 open positions this year and that is only likely to increase.

Thing is a lot of us love our jobs but they really are very unsafe. We complain because we see very directly, that because of things outside of our control, lives are at risk and we will be held responsible regardless if someone dies on our watch.

We average 53 hours a week over 48 weeks a year. Which is more than a lot of professions and we get paid a lot less. RE Nurses, their work is hard but they work three days a week and don't take any work home with them to do. It's easier to switch off.

I work 5 days a week. I take home work with me nightly and I'm taking a 10 min break now in between working and taking phone calls as I'm on call. If you RTFT you'll see most people work 4 x 12 hour shifts or 3 x 16 hour shifts. I've not seen any teachers work 7pm to 9am either. I used to work more than my husband in 3 days than he did in 5. Almost a full day of working hours more.

I rarely switch off. I counted my working hours last month and they totalled nearly 260. I can be on call 365 days a year. When did a teacher get called in to work last on Christmas Day?

I didn't get to use all my leave this year because there was no one to cover me. I'm owed 3 weeks toil on top of that which I'll just never get.

I LOVE my job. I love my service users dearly. I wouldn't do anything else. That's why I put up with this bullshit. Don't tell me I work 3 days a week though. It's laughable really.

Nursing is an incredibly diverse career - not all nurses turn up at work and do as doctors tell them then skip home and have a lovely night in front of the telly. We direct and are responsible for care. I direct doctors of all levels in what their input should be in my service users care. The buck stops with me if you like. I've had to be in court 6 times this year and give evidence as a witness and at coroners investigations.

I'm qualified to MSc level, 10 years experience, make life and death decisions daily which are instantaneous in risk, and get paid less than a head of year at my sons school (we had a conversation about it at the pub) who is 25 with an undergrad and 3 years experience. Oh and he's never been held against the wall by his throat by one of his charges and then been expected to come back and look after the same person the next day with 6 hours break in between shifts. I'm sure teachers do get hurt and don't get the support they need though.

Cause that's the thing isn't it. There are a lot of parallels especially in how we are all being screwed.

Neither of us (HOY / Me) would want to do each other's job but we also don't try and pretend we understand fully the pressures of one another's roles and he certainly wouldn't go well you only work 3 days a week. I certainly see teaching not only as a difficult and stressful one but also an incredibly important one. I value my sons school and all its staff immensely. I give my time to help out where I can and I speak about MH to young people and support the school nurses for free with MH cases as they have little experience in this area. If they were in a mental health crisis (or their child was) I would hope that they would appreciate what we do.

Can't just refuse to do the extra hours. If the lessons aren't prepped then you can't teach them. If the work's not assessed then you don't know what their next step is. Especially in primary. Fridays would just be feral!!! "No work today because I haven't got time to mark it."

Example of how we do try to balance the hours ...
We aimed for at least one English lesson a week that didn't need marking. Group discussions, acting, etc. Got told off for not having stuff in books. So we'd take a few photos, print them and the kids would stick that in the book instead. So we got told off for too much expensive printing. Sigh

Tried it in maths too, finding lots of practical activities & maths games. We got told off.
One of my photos of a practical maths session is still the first pic on the school's website though! Every pupil in it has long since gone to secondary.

Forgive me for the ignorance, but if you straight up refused to do above your contracted hours, would you get fired? I used to work in a professional field with much more vacancies than staff, and as a result, the working conditions were very good. Was rarely any overtime above 37.5 hours a week and if there was, several people just refused to do it and the client got told "sorry, we can't deliver today".

I would get fired and there is a high probability someone may die so I may face criminal charges and prison time also.

If I left when my shift ended religiously (when I worked on wards as a staff nurse) there very often wouldn't have been a registered member of staff on shift.

Teachers / Nurses / Social workers in the main go into these jobs because they want to see people get better, do well, live happier safer lives, so it's very difficult when you're actually in it to just walk away and stand up for yourselves. It's why nurses have not gone on strike for decades. It would leave the people who need us in the shit.

Countryescape
Even if teachers spent one week out of every school holiday block at school preparing, they still get far more holidays than any other profession known to man.

oil/gas rig workers and politicians are two that get more time off, just off the top of my head.