To think there’s little point vilifying Boris when he’s only echoing what millions want to hear?

[dameofdilemma]

Boris (I had to stop myself prefacing that with ‘that twat ‘) seems to have become some sort of pantomime villain but isn’t that a bit pointless?
He (and his cronies) are only voicing the opinions that they think will get them elected, the opinions probably held by millions of voters.

The right wing tabloid press are only printing the (vile) stories that their millions of readers agree with.

Much as Trump isn’t the problem, it’s the millions of voters who support him, who agree with his views, that are the real issue.

We’re entering a new era of fear, violence and division. There will be very few winners. Homelessness, poverty and job insecurity is on the rise. Public services are crippled by underfunding and underresourcing.

Personally we’re getting our ducks in a row to be as financially resilient as possible and to live in the most tolerant part of the country. Good luck everyone!

I think it’s very sensible not to abide by the referendum when we now know much more about what will happen ie Northern Ireland which was never considered. I have seen very little concrete from the leave side so it’s not a side I respect. I am with the Lib Dem’s who want to revoke or a sensible deal but I don’t think there is one. I think a deal will just mean Brexiteers feel they are still too closely linked to the EU. We won’t get a Brexiteer-friendly deal. It doesn’t exist.

The course of action he’s pursuing now is in accord with a national referendum result. I know that’s inconvenient, but you can’t just disregard it

This is actually not true. He could pursue a different course of action

He could also behave more like an adult instead of throwing insults around and framing things in war-like terms.

He himself voted against Theresa May’s deal. So he’s pursuing a Brexit that he thinks, not what “the people” think, is the best one. He’s not asked the population what sort of Brexit is best, no one has.

People really don’t fully appreciate just how complicated the EU relationship is and keep being convinced by very simplistic comparisons.

Why do you think it’s taken us years to get here? (Nowhere)

Things like the fact that actually, we aren’t an island nation - we actually have a hard border with the EU? That alone is what has caused us such a headache.

People are disenfranchised because the main parties have ignored them for years and under a two party FPTP system there is nothing that they can do to change it

People need to take some responsibility for their disenfranchisement as well. There’s plenty they could have done, like vote for the Lib Dem changes to the voting system even if it was flawed. It was better than what we have now.

Yes it is frightening. They keep interviewing people from towns up north where the majority voted for Brexit and they seem to love BJ. They think he is the man of the people and working class🤷🏻‍♀️

Oh, yucky! Not people from towns up north! Those ghastly places where they voted for Brexit? It really is frightening when those ordinary working people are given a voice and allowed to make a decision about their own future. They can’t possibly know what’s good for them. Stuff ‘em back in the box, say I!

Totally agree HerSymphony, people don’t seem to realise the horrific consequences if the tories proceed with their threat to abolish the independent Judiciary, and even agree with them! The amount of people on social media agreeing that the courts shouldn’t get involved in politics is insane. And this will only get worse if Johnson tries any trickery with the Benn Bill, as I imagine he will be facing the SC again. It’s like no one understands the separation of powers and how they work at all, and somehow think that after changing our (unwritten) constitution to allow someone to do something they agree, the checks and balances system will all snap back in to place afterwards. Very dangerous times imo

It's not the leaving the EU that's the problem.

It's the calls for a no deal and the fact that, that has been yoked to the far right.

Say we crash out with no deal. I don't think they will stop then. Any attempts to then strike a deal with EU will still be shouted down.

It's now perfectly normal to call people traitors. Language matters. Our choice of words say a lot, they define and reflect our culture. 'Traitor' is a hideous word, it's an us and them mentality which is what led to the gas chambers, the gulags and the killing fields.

This is not hyperbole or scaremongering. It's history. It repeats itself as there is very little new under the sun. We're the same people and have been for thousands of years.

A swing to an extreme and a hatred of the 'other' never ends well.

We have a pretty good system. The fact that it's been impossible to get a deal through parliament is actually indicative of that. The issue is that we failed to find a deal that could pass parliamentary scrutiny. I don't think we should lower the bar.

It's actually ludicrous that we expected to leave the EU is just a few years. That betrays a fundamental underestimate of how closely entwined we are. A good ten years would've been a more realistic proposition.

@Limitedsimba123

"It’s like no one understands the separation of powers"

Most people don't.

The problem is he is normalising extreme views. We should be calling out his language not letting him get away with it.

Yanbu op.
Leave voters don’t really care what Boris says as long as he gets us out.
You only have to look at the support Donald Trump still gets to know that.
In certain situations, people just want someone to get the job done. We had three years of TM talking nice but getting us nowhere.

@Jillyhilly my point is that if working class people up north think BJ and Rees Mogg are their saviours then unfortunately they have another thing coming. I think personally think it’s weird but apparently he speaks their language.

What @HerSymphonyAndSong said.

Leave at any cost... hmmm

Symphony, corbyn said

' we are creating a frankenstien monster that will affect us all' re the eu.

You don't want to leave the eu and now getting panicky becsuse someone seems hell bent of getting us out.

You say
.. Don't you feel worried that another pm you don't agree with does a, b, c.

I say... Don't you worry that your vote is null and void and in future you will vote on something and it won't be enacted?

That is the situation we are in.

17 million had a vote years ago and the people supposed to honour it have twisted around and done everything to stop it?

Re violence and nasty words... Jo swinson said she would..

Stab corbyn in the front..

John macdonnel said.. Esther mcvey should be 'lynched'...

And farage should have battery acid chucked over him.

Boris Johnson says humbug... Surrender act...

It doesn't wash with me, this faux outrage.

Say we crash out with no deal. I don't think they will stop then. Any attempts to then strike a deal with EU will still be shouted down.

Which is why Labour needs to be focussing all their energy on making themselves electable. The worst outcome would be No Deal followed by two terms of a workable Tory majority.

I think you're talking rubbish. I think about 100 people in total who voted to leave wanted to crash out with no deal - and only then because like him they knew they'd gain from it while everyone else lost. Most people who voted leave did so because they trusted their political overlords to do it responsibly without fucking everything up. The gullible fools.

Oh, yucky! Not people from towns up north! Those ghastly places where they voted for Brexit? It really is frightening when those ordinary working people are given a voice and allowed to make a decision about their own future. They can’t possibly know what’s good for them. Stuff ‘em back in the box, say I!

Och. I did laugh.

People who support rather far right will never vote Labour- be it Corbyn or Blair.

my point is that if working class people up north think BJ and Rees Mogg are their saviours then unfortunately they have another thing coming. I think personally think it’s weird but apparently he speaks their language.

Can you not hear yourself? WC northerners aren’t some huge uniform collective of gullible idiots.

Is it that you like to tell yourself that all the Leavers are all safely corralled somewhere beyond Harrogate? You sound most odd.

You don't want to leave the eu and now getting panicky becsuse someone seems hell bent of getting us out

See - the person who wants go get us the hell out voted against Theresa May when she wanted to get us out.

That's a massive issue - and it is hypocrisy.

I bet many MPs would support the current WA with the backstop.

So why doesn't Boris bring it back?

Because in his opinion, the backstop doesn't deliver Brexit. But that's his opinion. Not Parliament. Not the view of some people in the country.

He is driving through HIS opinion of Brexit.

People who support rather far right will never vote Labour- be it Corbyn or Blair.

Well of course not. But Labour should be leading the polls at this point. (The far right fringe don’t get a casting vote in GEs.)

Oh, yucky! Not people from towns up north! Those ghastly places where they voted for Brexit? It really is frightening when those ordinary working people are given a voice and allowed to make a decision about their own future. They can’t possibly know what’s good for them. Stuff ‘em back in the box, say I!

This would be funny if it wasn’t true.

This sums up exactly what the anti brexit brigade thinks. And they call Boris ‘dangerous’

They're not a fringe anymore- they're moving into the mainstream.

That's my point.

This sums up exactly what the anti brexit brigade thinks.

And they’re left leaning, on average. That’s the bit that breaks my brain.

Who is content with a PM who is a mere echo chamber, though? We know Johnson basically tossed a coin to decide his view on the EU referendum. We see that he is unscrupulously appealing to the worst in people.

I for one want more and better than this from a 'leader'.

Did all 17.4m vote to leave without a deal? I must have missed that. In fact I specifically remember the leave campaign being based on “we will get a great deal, they need us more than we need them etc.” Boris isn’t ‘getting on with Brexit’ he’s trying to push his version of Brexit through to satisfy his backers who have shorted the pound even though he doesn’t have the support of Parliament and is using un-constitutional means to do so. This isn’t about stopping Brexit, Boris must ask for an extension to seek an agreement. But that of course loses his backers a lot of money.