To think there’s little point vilifying Boris when he’s only echoing what millions want to hear?

[dameofdilemma]

Boris (I had to stop myself prefacing that with ‘that twat ‘) seems to have become some sort of pantomime villain but isn’t that a bit pointless?
He (and his cronies) are only voicing the opinions that they think will get them elected, the opinions probably held by millions of voters.

The right wing tabloid press are only printing the (vile) stories that their millions of readers agree with.

Much as Trump isn’t the problem, it’s the millions of voters who support him, who agree with his views, that are the real issue.

We’re entering a new era of fear, violence and division. There will be very few winners. Homelessness, poverty and job insecurity is on the rise. Public services are crippled by underfunding and underresourcing.

Personally we’re getting our ducks in a row to be as financially resilient as possible and to live in the most tolerant part of the country. Good luck everyone!

I’m not blaming Wales.
I’m saluting them.

Your poor parents. Do they realise you feel like this?

Gosh, @TottieandMarchpane, solved the border issue and the legacy of the Troubles all in one conveniently ill-defined soundbite — genius.

It was a suggestion, and I doubt the Cabinet are scouring Mumsnet for policy inspiration. But it’ll have to end up being some middling patchwork bodge, won’t it? That’s the nature of compromise.

I’m not blaming Wales. I’m saluting them.

Apologies - I misunderstood!

Latest analysis has shown it was English who had moved to Wales that swung it to leave.

Latest analysis of a secret ballot three years ago?

Millions may want to hear him spout shite but millions don't! I will never as long as I live forgive him and his greasy palm for thinking they are above sovereign Parliament and closing it down. Also his disgusting remarks on Wednesday have shown him up for the nasty little berk he is.
Nope will never vote for him or the ridiculous brexit and nothing will change my mind as I'm already feeling the consequences of it.

I'm sick of people telling me how brilliant things will be because my little business is suffering and I'm angry, no amount of copy and paste bollocks will make things better nor bring back a couple of staff who've left the Country because they felt unwelcome.
This is what things have descended into and too bloody right I'm getting my knickers in a twist because it's affecting me but I will not sit on my arse and accept it

Well you can be rude if it makes you happy, but why are they revisiting it now and what was so complicated to work out that they couldn’t have seen this fairly quickly at the time? And who was analysing? I’m intrigued.

Sorry, that was to smile.

If you look at the Remain areas of Wales it's a really diverse mixture. So Arfon and Gwynedd which are very Welsh Wales, Welsh as first language areas were Remain. But Anglesey which is also really Welsh speaking was Leave. Then you have the two biggest Welsh cities voting differently to each other. And Monmouthshire which is farming territory was Remain and it isn't like either of the others. The areas with a lot of moneyed retired English were Leave, so was the Valleys. I think Wales is probably the most interesting area to analyse wrt the referendum vote, really hard to draw broad conclusions. Wales is politically quite interesting full stop though imho.

Sorry Ceredigion not Arfon. Arfon is in Gwynedd! Getting my areas mixed up.

So Arfon and Gwynedd which are very Welsh Wales, Welsh as first language areas were Remain

Is that a chunk up (very vaguely) near Ceredigion kind of area? (Sorry my Welsh geography isn’t the best.) I remember looking at a results map at the time and wondering about that significant patch of remain-heaviness . I guessed something to do with agriculture.

X post.

Oh good I was not completely wrong on geography.

I think Wales is probably the most interesting area to analyse wrt the referendum vote, really hard to draw broad conclusions

That’s my lunchtime suddenly accounted for

Thanks for the link smile

Welsh psephology geeking alert!

There are posts on this thread throwing around terms like fascist, referring to gas chambers, suggesting we partition Britain into leavers and remainers, and referring to the entire north of Britain in a way that implies idiocy...

Yet these posters actually think they are not the extremists..and who seemed to live with an extraordinary level of cognitive dissonance to seriously believe they are not narrow minded stirrers of hatred, which it is clear they are, to many reading, who decline to post because they quietly opt out of the pious mud slinging, but who will vote...

And watch the tories win.
Remember never meeting a Thatcher voter anyone??

Listen to yourselves.

Of course he will. And benefits will be the first to be cut I expect. Man of the working class and poor people my @ss.

@BabyItsAWildWorld I think the term fascism is (at the moment) a bit extreme but the attorney general threatening to abolish the independent Judiciary is certainly heading that way. If they actually go ahead and try to do this, then this is absolutely fascism and anyone who has even a basic understanding of our checks and balances system should agree.

Clavinova, are you suggesting that ‘leaving the single market’ is the equivalent of ‘no deal’?

My point is that before the referendum the idea of no deal was rubbished repeatedly by its leaders (Johnson referred to it as absurd). ‘Out’ was campaigned on as a free trade deal. So that helped to define what ‘out’ meant to voters. Campaigns influence how voters interpret their options or they wouldn’t have millions spent on them.

As Vote Leave itself said, when we leave the EU ‘We have a new UK-EU Treaty based on free trade and friendly cooperation. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. We will take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals.’

And yes, what constitutes soft and hard has shifted a lot. Around referendum, ‘soft’ was repeatedly described as remaining in the SM or CU or both (and Johnson’s article immediately after the referendum is instructive on what he felt was the right course then). That is now ‘not Brexit at all’ and TM’s red lines, originally seen as ‘hard’ are now described in more moderate terms and hard is increasingly ‘no deal’.

It’s interesting to look at the journey and what has influenced the shift in narrative.

I must admit, if it wasn’t for the people of Wales ( who voted overwhelmingly to leave ) we wouldn’t be leaving.

52.5% is an overwhelming majority now is it?

Also there appears to be some evidence that English people in Wales may have swung it in favour of leave.

Well. They are right wing and they support illegal actions of government. If that isn't extreme then what is?