To not want DD to get suspended over a nose piercing?

[Helpmeplease123456]

She is year 11. She got her septum pierced at the beginning of this month (when she turned 16, she asked me previously and I said no. She said fine, I'll go when I'm 16 and don't need consent and she went with a friend a couple of days after her birthday. She has now had it a couple of weeks.

Her school have a ban on facial piercings, only one lobe piercing for each ear is allowed. She did know this and I did too, hence why I said I wasn't giving permission. Obviously I respect she doesn't need it now.

Her school (of course) noticed this the first day she showed up with it and are demanding she takes it out. I have had multiple phone calls about this, during which I've said short of physically yanking it out, there's nothing I can do. She's refusing to twist it up into her nose (which effectively hides it) and is complaining that the school aren't respecting her personal expression. On Monday the school basically said take it out or we'll put you into isolation until it comes out. She refused and has spent 4 days in isolation. (They let her out at lunchtime so she still sees her friends- she doesn't really see the isolation as a punishment i don't think. She likes the quiet time to do the learning without distraction.

I got a call today saying they're thinking of a fixed term suspension if it doesn't come out. Again, they seemed to be implying that I can make her take it out. I really don't want her to be suspended over a nose ring in such an important year but do I just have to accept there's nothing I can do?

What a brat! Sorry, but septum piercings can (like you said) be SO easily hidden by simply turning the bar up inside the nose. She deserves suspension because it sounds like her attitude stinks. It will be a good life lesson for her going forward into adulthood - you can’t always get your own way and the whole world doesn’t need to bend to suit your wants. That’s something she needs to learn.

Start phoning round to other schools to see if they have availability and tell her she will have to move, as the school will not change their mind. I think if she realises she will lose her friendship group you might see a change in attitude.

OP. I wish you every luck with this. I wonder if it might be worth showing her some of this thread as there is a good mixture of responses including those that agree with her and those that have their own piercings and comply in the workplace. Naem offers a particularly rational argument. I really doubt the school will back down on this even if she goes to the papers. I do think there probably needs to be a general debate about whether a nose stud should still be considered as unprofessional as they are so mainstream now and that might be a story for a paper. But a septum piercing for many will still be regarded as unacceptable. I think you might need to help her find a way of backing down and not feeling like she has completely lost face or help her work out what she is going to do when she is suspended or excluded. I think she needs to accept that school are not going to let her return with the piercing. And I would avoid referring to the piercing as a 'trivial' thing. It may seem like that to others but clearly to her it is not trivial otherwise she would not be risking her education over it. I was that girl in school. My issue was about being able to wear sensible leather boots when all the other girls were wearing silly heeled shoes. I lost that battle. Never respected the school after that and stopped engaging and failed my exams and did not go on to do the career that I wanted to for a very long time. I later channeled my energies into other causes and ironically now work in a secondary school that has super strict dress code. See my previous post. Best of luck. It must be so frustrating for you to see your daughter poteentially ruining her education. But she can find other ways to get where she wants to get. It will just be harder and may take longer. This may be a very good life lesson for her. Please let us know how you get on.

Her attitude stinks. She's so entitled and you need to step up and do something about it OP. Have you discussed with her the fact that she might want a job next year and that if she behaves this way she will be sacked?

I wonder if it might be worth showing her some of this thread as there is a good mixture of responses including those that agree with her and those that have their own piercings and comply in the workplace

BAD idea. She will focus on the people who side with her and completely disregard the rest.

-She thinks if she gets suspended she's going to go to the papers and be on the news and the school won't like the bad publicity and will allow her back

Suggest she does a bit of research on what happens when people go to the papers about this sort of thing. Inevitably in practice the story is written up in a faux sympathetic way but a lot of words get put into the interviewee's mouth which make them sound utterly stupid - and then they get completely torn apart in the comments. The only person who will suffer from the bad publicity resulting from that would be your DD. She might like to reflect on whether she wants good job offers withdrawn in the future because her prospective employers have done a quick google search on her name.

There is a few book group that literally exists to take the piss out of morons who go to the papers with sad faces. She'll be on that in a millisecond.

Pinky but she has already made up her mind so reading the posts of people that
completely agree with her is not going to change her mind. Even many of those that agree with her in principle are saying she should flip up or remove the piercing.But reading some of the posts from people who have piercings themself might. Besides it is a bit irrelevant now about opinion. It is about practicalities. School.are not going to back down..She needs to choose whether to comply and be allowed in school..or not comply and not be able to go to school.

@okeydokeygirl I think it will have the opposite effect. When trying to teach her that she's being ridiculous, the best tact is not to give her a list of people who are saying she isn't. All it will do is strengthen her attitude.

She is bright. What about flattering/respect her intelligence. arrange an appointment out of the house and her comfort zone, with someone, she will respect, who is good at explaining legalistic language/concepts, to go through the school rule slowly and painstakingly in relation to health and safety insurance requirements, in a very practical way with practical examples , so she can understand there are real reasons, it isn’t just school bullying her/being old fashioned. One of the philosophical points she could have discussed with her is around what makes a society, ie that of giving up some freedoms/compromise to gain more freedom/benefits of getting on with people.

She's 16. Can't you just leave her to it. Let her accept the consequences

Don't be looking into other schools or homeschooling! She has one option: take it out (or flip it up) or no school. Don't accommodate her nonsense on any level.

Although her going to the press would be hilarious. And the comments on that Facebook page are brutal!

She's 16. Can't you just leave her to it. Let her accept the consequences

The issue for the OP is that at least some of the consequences are coming her way. She is having to take phone calls from the school, because with her DD at 16 she is still the legal guardian (if her DD was 18, that wouldn't happen). She is going to have someone in the flat/house at times when she didn't anticipate it, which will add (a minor) amount of wear and tear to their dwelling, additional cleaning and tidying (is DD doing this?) etc. If this does seriously derail her DD's education, it is likely the OP's finances that will be hit at first instance.

All of this give OP the right to be involved, and to explain to DD the consequences on the family (I don't know from the thread if there are younger DC, or whether DD is an only - but it will impact them as well if they exist). But at this age deducting privileges like one would with a child is likely not effective and hence not that sensible. As mentioned, the "if you are old enough to have this battle, you are old enough to get a job and pay me rent" is probably a more reasonable response that trying to cut off wifi that she needs for the education she is rejecting.

Rules in school are there for a reason. Imagine if all students broke a rule it would be a nightmare. I can’t see why she can’t flip it up. School have offered a compromise and probably think if they let it go there will be other people who think they can break rules. Unless it’s a slow news day I don’t think the papers would be that bothered especially as school have shown to compromise. Plus would she want a future employer seeing it if they chose to google her.

It’s her own future that she is compromising here. She’s old enough for you to be able to explain that to her. If she wants to end up with no gcse’s, no opportunity to go to university and not be able to become whatever it is she dreams of, then sure, keep wearing the nose ring.

And she won’t end up in the papers, come off it!

Employers have been known to Google job applicants. If she ends up in the papers, the fact that she's an entitled madam who believes she's above the rules will follow her for life. Good luck with that one.
If she has form for cyberbullying, this attitude clearly isn't a new thing.
I suspect she is seen by some of her mates as the cool girl to look up to which is why she won't back down and lose face. When they get decent results and she doesn't, she wont look quite as cool. Being the one with a rubbish reference and not being allowed to attend prom isn't smart either.
Not doing herself any favours.

And she won’t end up in the papers, come off it!

You'd be surprised. At least once a week there's an article about a child who's been sent home repeatedly for wrong skirt/trousers etc. They always stand with their mothers looking hard done by. Its ridiculous.

Show her any of the sad faced brats in the papers. Then go to the comments section. Ask her how well it's turned out for them.

If it does get in the papers it wouldn’t do her any good. Imagine in a couple of years when someone does a background check on her and Google’s her name. She will make a name for herself and not in a good way.
Whether people agree or not with the school the rule is there and needs to be adhered to

I am going to look up homeschooling and online schools just in case this escalates

Unlike some other posters, I agree with looking at other alternatives, but, I think instead of just I am going to look up, it should utimately be I am going to sit down with DD and research together. [You can do your own research earlier, to have it a bit in hand, but it is important you ultimately do it together] .She wants to be treated as an adult, she has to start taking on some of the responsibilities of an adult, which includes weighing up the pros and cons of alternative choices, which do, often, involve the option of leaving an employer or organisation (church, club - even family sometimes) in extremis and looking elsewhere. That is a hugely important life skill. But the consquences need to be faced clearly. It is highly unlikely that alternatives will be doing precisely the same books in English - which might mean she has to get up to speed on a completely different Shakespeare play, set of poetry, 19th and 20th century novel. It could even be a different board, which have different emphases (AQA focus more on language analysis, EDEXCEL on context, I believe). Some of her GCSE options might not even be offered by neighbouring schools. If her GCSEs involve collaborative coursework, such as drama, it is unlkely she can come into a group at this stage, and hence she would have to forfeit the subject. Art would be difficult to shift. Indeed, I suspect most schools would not be prepared to take a Year 11 student under any circumstances, and certainly not these ones, so she is, at best, looking at going back into Year 10 and starting her GCSEs again. Some E schools may be able to help better, as they can be more flexible, but those ones cost! It would certainly not be unreasonable to ask her to bear these costs (the job again, and you are unlikely to be able to get that in place in time to pay for a year 11 course). I suspect if you reseach with her, it will become clear to both of you quite quickly that the real option is starting Year 10 again.

PLEASE don't raise health and safety reasons for rules about facial piercings. It is purely about image. Apart from practical subjects such as PE, catering and DT where generally no jewellery is allowed, there are really few safety issues with most piercings. I am 52, I have numerous piercings both visible and non visible and I have never had an injury whilst reading, writing, walking down a corridor or messing about. The school has this rule for image reasons. People may not agree with it but that is the rule. If you want to belong to an institution then you either abide by the rules, campaign to get them changed or break the rules and live with the consequences. This is what this now boils down to.

Let her get suspended, she’ll hopefully learn that being an obstinate twerp won’t get her very far in life. She sounds a right pain

You also need to make it clear that even a school that has no problem with nose piercings, may well have a problem with an attitude which is "my way of the highway", and not want to take someone like this on the grounds that they won't know what other school rule they have that she might have a problem with, and fight against, and waste their time with (and if it does go to the press, drag them into the press with), making them very wary of touching her.

Similarly, as other people have said, she really needs to understand the personal consequences to her (and you!) of going to the press, and the level of personal attack she is opening both herself and you to (and any other members of the family). Now is the time to sit down with the Facebook pages and the like. It is not just her who will be attacked. If she does have younger siblings, bullying on the subject is highly likely, and there will inevitably be personal attacks on you, OP. I am not sure if, at 16 you can refuse consent for the press to talk to her - but you can certainly tell her that if asked you will refuse consent, and it is likely the press will not talk to a minor when the parent/guardian refuses permission (the one time one of my DC was involved in a focus group that was then filmed on TV, and yes, he was 16 at the time, I had to sign in triplicate!)

I would not support suspension. They already told her she would be in isolation until she complied, which she has accepted - changing the terms on her just because she hasn't responded in the way they anticipated, is wrong imo.
Also it's sledgehammer to crack a nut to suspend a year 11 student who is a good worker. At 16 she doesn't really comprehend the consequences of messing up her GCSEs, but as adults, the school does. I would not support this disproportionate punishment.
They told her she would be in isolation, so that is what should continue until she sits her exams. The school would be within their rights not to accept her back for A levels since since won't obey their rules though. So ask her whether she will mind not being with her friends next year, but at the same time don't let the school risk her GCSEs because they have got themselves into a situation where they are butting heads with a stroppy teen.