To not want DD to get suspended over a nose piercing?

[Helpmeplease123456]

She is year 11. She got her septum pierced at the beginning of this month (when she turned 16, she asked me previously and I said no. She said fine, I'll go when I'm 16 and don't need consent and she went with a friend a couple of days after her birthday. She has now had it a couple of weeks.

Her school have a ban on facial piercings, only one lobe piercing for each ear is allowed. She did know this and I did too, hence why I said I wasn't giving permission. Obviously I respect she doesn't need it now.

Her school (of course) noticed this the first day she showed up with it and are demanding she takes it out. I have had multiple phone calls about this, during which I've said short of physically yanking it out, there's nothing I can do. She's refusing to twist it up into her nose (which effectively hides it) and is complaining that the school aren't respecting her personal expression. On Monday the school basically said take it out or we'll put you into isolation until it comes out. She refused and has spent 4 days in isolation. (They let her out at lunchtime so she still sees her friends- she doesn't really see the isolation as a punishment i don't think. She likes the quiet time to do the learning without distraction.

I got a call today saying they're thinking of a fixed term suspension if it doesn't come out. Again, they seemed to be implying that I can make her take it out. I really don't want her to be suspended over a nose ring in such an important year but do I just have to accept there's nothing I can do?

Should like your daughter is about to learn that at 16 she doesn't have as much personal freedom/rights as she would like. You really only achieve autonomy when you are free to make mistakes and have to live with the consequences. Since most 16 year old kids don't earn enough to live independently they don't have quite the massive consequences that come when full adult decision making. So they also don't have full decision making control. They have to live by someone else's rules (in this case schools) or suffer someone else's consequence.....I get that it's frustrating but that's the way it is. Step back op, she has to learn this stuff for herself....

And that's what schools' insistence on conformity gets you...

Don't talk soft!

If she was confirming to the school's rules she wouldn't be bullying anyone BECAUSE IT ISN'T ALLOWED!

This is a spoiled, over-indulged child whose mother is too frightened/ lazy to discipline her.

Maybe the school\s rules are ridiculous, maybe they aren't, but they are the rules and if she wants to be a pupil of that school, she has to follow them.

It's a matter discipline and order, and keeping the school atmosphere one that is conducive to learning, not indulging attention-seeking egotistical behaviour on the part of arrogant little b's like this.

(Is anyone else feeling slightly queasy every time someone mentions flipping it up inside her nose? Just me then.)

Not just you, StCharlotte - I could be sick at the thought of any piercing anywhere except the ear-lobe. Belly buttons in particular make me heave. Just the thought of a hole being punched through all of that tended flesh makes my stomach churn . . .

But I accept that I am a queasy weirdo.

Life is really quite simple. Wear the uniform, don't cyberbully, avoid sticking rings in your nose until after you graduate. That's not such a big ask of a person.

Beautifully put Scribbler

Life is really quite simple. Wear the uniform, don't cyberbully, avoid sticking rings in your nose until after you graduate. That's not such a big ask of a person
Very well put.
Life has rules. You may not like them all, but part of being a mature adult isn't whining because you can't do what you like.

It's telling that some of these "rules don't apply to me" types think they're big and adult enough to make choices, but go into childish strop mode when told to accept the consequences.

I'm a hypocrite for saying this given I had my ears as a child, 2nd/3rd and nose done in college, but maybe it would be better if all piercings were 18+.

hettie

Very well put. Rules not only constrain children, they protect them. Their needs and interests come first in our society in almost every possible way. The trade off is doing as they are asked.

I’d let them suspend her, and find her a job to do until she can comply with the rules. Not a nice little job. A shitty hard one the like of which will be the only option if she doesn’t want an education. Skivvy for a local builder or something equally physical and unpleasant in the rain. Apprentice wages (so not minimum wage). And she has to budget for everything she needs while she isn’t in education.

None of that was ever a problem in the high school my DCs all attended in the US,

How's that relevant? OP is in the U.K. which has completely different cultural norms around school uniform.

I notice it is always the same two or three posters who enjoy sticking two fingers up at rules and regulations.

While I agree that many school uniform rules have absiloutely no impact on learning and can be rather draconian, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Just being stubborn to prove a point is very immature behaviour.

At school it is simply easier to suck it up and do as you're told. The daughter is making life difficult for herself and doesn't seem to be learning from it. There will be plenty of time after she leaves school to express herself and be indiviudal.

DD(19) was a model pupil at shool. Now she has hair dyed in multiple coours, several piercings and three tattoos. She had the common sense and maturity to wait until it was easier to do so without any consequences.

titchy -- don't be disingenuous...

You took Mathanxiety's quote out of context! She was pointing out that piercings are not a health and safety issue in the many many schools worldwide where they are allowed. It is true that UK schools have cultural norms which depend on a lot of arbitrary and arcane rules about the appearance of children, but people in the UK should just admit that, rather than pretending that uniform is for safety or to improve people's learning, which is demonstrably untrue.

Ginfordinner
I find arguing over rules you may not agree with to be a really childish thing to do. I expect it a bit from teenagers because they're kids, but hearing adults do it makes me cringe. There's an important part of growing up that means making peace with the fact that you don't have to like every rule or situation, but you get on with it.

One of my friends has a nose piercing.I used to but it healed up because I lost my clear retainer and I want it done again in due course. We both teach at different schools. I wore a clear retainer and had no issues. On one occasion a student in registration said "I didn't know you had your nose done miss! It suits you." and I thanked them for inadvertently reminding me to remove it (I'd sat through a meeting with SLT that morning too and nobody said anything). I never had a issue with SLT on the rare occasions I forgot.

My friend insists on wearing hers to work. She'll try to turn away if she sees certain members of SLT because she's been pulled up for it several times. I can't help but think she's being really childish. Follow the damn dress code. It's not difficult and you've got all the other hours of your life to enjoy your piercing.

Rules not only constrain children, they protect them.

Seaweed is right - and often children need to be protected from themselves as much as from outside influences.

No matter how bright, how independent, how aware they are, they haven't had a chance to become wise or learn the ways of the world.

She was pointing out that piercings are not a health and safety issue in the many many schools worldwide where they are allowed.

Iv'e seen the state of someone's face when they got into a physical altercation (through no fault of their own) and a chain connecting a nostril ring and an ear-ring was ripped off their face. It was horrible!

I know this is an extreme example (an admittedly it wasn't't in a school context), but these things can and do happen. Earlobes being ripped when ear-rings are pulled out isn't that rare.

Schadenfreude I just object to people misquoting and taking things out of context. That was the point I was trying to make.

Sorry PurrBox - I was aware of your point, but wanted to make the equally valid one that piercings can be a health and safety issue.

Why are you mollycoddling her like this?

She's behaving like an obnoxious brat.

And surely her gymnastics club won't let her participate with a great ring sticking out of her septum?

Cancel EVERYTHING until she starts behaving like a decent human being.

How did it go today OP? Did she see sense?

I don't understand why schools are so strict. Your school years and uni years are really the only ones where you can have fun with your appearance before having to tone it all down for the world of work. When I was in school (I'm 30 now) the rules were less strict. I had black and red 'Nikki Sixx' style hair when I was 16. I had a mohawk in uni. I shaved that off and grew my hair back in over my final year of uni in prep for the working world. I've now been with my company for 3 years and I've realised that the workplace is not as OTT as I worried. So now, as a 30 yr old adult, I've shaved my hair off again...it's currently blue...and started to get the tattoos I've always wanted.
I work for one of the top big-name engineering firms. My 'self expression' has never held me back. But I think the key thing is that I did appreciate the need to tame down at crucial times such as graduating and looking for a job. But nobody in the office gives a flying fuck what people look like. My hair is the shortest (not counting bald folk) in our office and the person with the longest is a man. Doesn't affect our professional ability. There's a lass with hand tattoos. Another with a pink mohawk. Various piercings and tattoos across many, many people. They really don't matter. And it infuriates me when schools promote that old fashioned attitude that to be professional you have to be plain.

Not rtft, but even if she decided to "flip it up", if she took a ball to the face in P. E. it could leave her with serious injuries.

Tell her to stop being a madam, she's the rest of her life to stand out, school is not the place for personal expression.

Her friends are probably all egging her on, telling her she's so brave and all that!)

As I had mentioned in my previous comment, I do think your DD is getting a bit pumped up by her friends. She's trying to come out strong and prove it to everyone that breaking rules and standing up for yourself is the right thing to do.

It is, you should but not for the wrong reasons. Your DD must understand that this is a set rule and just for her, it can't be changed. I will stress more on the importance of education and her future and now that you have mentioned that how much she loves Gymnastics, I will throw that in there too. She's being ridiculous. Ask her is she's ready to risk it all for just a piercing?

Before this matter becomes more so a self-esteem issue for her (thanks to her so called friends who's just egging her on it) please shut it down. She's your DD. Just try to connect with her and as other pp saying, you need to be a little more strict. I am sure you're but you need a bit more of a firmness that can help contain the situation.

Good luck OP.

SweetPetrichor
This isn't about whether self expression holds someone back. It's about a teenager who thinks rules don't apply to her, is argumentative, defiant and has been involved in bullying other students.

The central issue is that for students who think the world revolves around their wants, it doesn't matter what the rules are because they are so unique and special they don't apply.
See also "of course the teacher said silent working, but my DC was just whispering to a friend" / "yes it's obvious that bullying is horrible, but my DC wasn't bullying, you know you can't expect people like my DCto en friends with everyone". That's the point. It's an attitude and personality thing, not a nose stud thing

I don't understand why schools are so strict.

Schools restrict because kids are there to learn - not admire each other's piercings/ tattoos/ hairstyles etc.

Somany children nowadays find it very hard to concentrate for more than a minute or two - it isn't their fault, it's because we live in a world of soundbites and "textspeak" etc, as well as having parents who think they need to fill every minute of every day with an activity.

Few of them are encouraged to be "bored" - ie entertain themselves; nor are they used to concentrating their attention on a single task - they are obsessed with social media and phones etc.

Children NEED to be able to focus their attention - school rules help them to do that by removing at least some the distractions.

When these children go to uni or college, they have to be responsible fr their own learning - and they can't do this if they haven't learned how to concentrate on the task in hand.

*are strict, not restrict

How did it go today, @Helpmeplease123456?

I'm not generally a fan of uniform or daft rules but this seems a sensible one to be honest.

And she's not ONLY facing suspension due to the piercing but from the sounds of things her belligerent attitude too.

That isn't on especially in such an important year for HER.

You say short of physical removal there's nothing you can do - what have you TRIED?

Yea this is a really difficult age but you should still have some control over her behaviour.

If my dd had done something like this she'd have been grounded (which in this house meant school attendance only, no phone, no pocket money) as soon as she turned up with it! Before the school even got involved!

Sorry but no she does not NEED a phone to get to school - how often does the bus fail to show? Really? Then she just walks home and is late and that's the natural consequences of having her phone confiscated for bad behaviour.

Have her use the laptop for schoolwork ONLY with supervision - no socialising with it.

Extra chores - as mundane as possible

How did it go at school today?