To not want DD to get suspended over a nose piercing?

[Helpmeplease123456]

She is year 11. She got her septum pierced at the beginning of this month (when she turned 16, she asked me previously and I said no. She said fine, I'll go when I'm 16 and don't need consent and she went with a friend a couple of days after her birthday. She has now had it a couple of weeks.

Her school have a ban on facial piercings, only one lobe piercing for each ear is allowed. She did know this and I did too, hence why I said I wasn't giving permission. Obviously I respect she doesn't need it now.

Her school (of course) noticed this the first day she showed up with it and are demanding she takes it out. I have had multiple phone calls about this, during which I've said short of physically yanking it out, there's nothing I can do. She's refusing to twist it up into her nose (which effectively hides it) and is complaining that the school aren't respecting her personal expression. On Monday the school basically said take it out or we'll put you into isolation until it comes out. She refused and has spent 4 days in isolation. (They let her out at lunchtime so she still sees her friends- she doesn't really see the isolation as a punishment i don't think. She likes the quiet time to do the learning without distraction.

I got a call today saying they're thinking of a fixed term suspension if it doesn't come out. Again, they seemed to be implying that I can make her take it out. I really don't want her to be suspended over a nose ring in such an important year but do I just have to accept there's nothing I can do?

The only person risking their GCSEs is the daughter. The school have laid out their rules. That the child agreed to when accepting to attend the school. If she can't accept their rules she doesn't attend the school.

Like I said though, she's too young to fully understand the consequences for her life. The school are the adults and they do know.
The way forward is for the school to disengage a bit so they aren't butting heads. Keep her in isolation until exams if necessary. It doesn't matter that she doesn't care - if she's studying then that's good for both the school and DD, since high results look good for the school too.
If everyone stops giving this so much attention and the school virtually ignore her, she may well get bored and give in. If not, so what - the school maintain the agreed punishment and everyone gets on with their business.

Pathetic parenting. No wonder she's got to this point. Are you scared of her? You're prepared to give up your job and homeschool her rather than discipline her?

I have a septum piercing. At the moment due to not working (due to illness) I have a small hoop clicker but for work I always used a horseshoe and flicked it up, no one ever knew. I totally get she wants to express herself which is a good thing but scho has rules which she needs to follow. All she needs to do is flick it up!!!!!! Mind you I rebelled a lot as a teen, not major stuff but along similar lines and in the end if it was something necessary I always did what I had to eventually!

16 is plenty old enough for her to understand what a twat she's being.
But she is a bully who thinks she's important.

She's about to find out she's not that special.

She needs to turn it up inside of her nose. She can take it out after school but the point she is trying to make is immature and futile, she’s only cocking up her own education in the most important year.

I had many facial piercings at her age fwiw and thankfully my school were ok with it. I also had jobs after school where I had to turn my septum ring up and remove the others. Rules sometimes have to be followed, she’ll either learn the easy or hard way.

She thinks if she gets suspended she's going to go to the papers and be on the news and the school won't like the bad publicity and will allow her back

Haha so she's one of those types is she? A silly little attention seeking rebel without a cause. Quelle surprise! AND a bully to boot. Well let's just hope that if she does go running to the papers that it doesn't all come out about her making other kids lives miserable, otherwise the little battle about a nose ring might become the least of her problems!

That a good point. Will her victims or more so their families keep quite on the public forums.
She is risking her bullying coming straight to the front and centre.

-She thinks if she gets suspended she's going to go to the papers and be on the news and the school won't like the bad publicity and will allow her back

Frankly, if I was the head teacher this would make me even more determined not to back down.

It's an attempt at bullying and I wouldn't tolerate it for a moment. In fact, it might even make me re-consider the "discretionary" septum piercings I'd been allowing - the ones where the kids flipped them up so they weren't obvious.

I think ny head who bows to this sort of pressure might as well resign, because it would open the floodgates for further breaches of school rules.

OP, give her the URL for the local authority's page of secondary schools in the area and tell her to research the uniform policies for other local schools to find one that would allow her piercing. That way, you get an alternative school to send her to and she gets to do something useful with her web access. Presuming the school don't back down, go down the route of moving her to a school that will accommodate her rather than the "sad face photo in newspaper" route she seems keen on. I doubt the school are going to back down on this, because you agreed to their rules on her behalf when she joined the school, and they don't have to do anything for one student who just wants to do something different to the rest.

I am going to look up homeschooling and online schools just in case this escalates, she has always been v stubborn so this isn't a new thing imo.

Don't be ridiculous - you're continuing to pander to her. Who's going to pay for on-line schooling?

How about taking her round a PRU - which is where she'll end up is she continues to be a stroppy little madam.

Presumably you've told her that as she's under 18 the newspapers would need your permission to run the story - permission which you won't be giving.... Let me guess - you haven't have you?

They already told her she would be in isolation until she complied, which she has accepted - changing the terms on her just because she hasn't responded in the way they anticipated, is wrong imo.

I'm not normally an advocate of either isolation or detention, but I wouldn't agree with this. The idea was presumably that isolation would be sufficient to make her realise where she was going wrong. If that hasn't worked, it would be pointless imposing more of the same, so they have little choice but to go to the next level. If she wants to go to war on this, it is inevitable that it will lead to permanent exclusion, which will either mean she has to start GCSE courses again (as she won't find any other school offering precisely the same syllabus and options, let alone one that is also tolerant of rulebreaking) or messing up her GCSEs altogether.

OP, if your daughter is permanently excluded, the rule is that the LA has to put her back into full time education by the 6th day after the exclusion, which will probably be a Pupil Referral Unit. If you don't want that, it will become your responsibility to home school her. I hope if that means you have to employ tutors you have told her that any allowances will stop to help you to pay for them.

They already told her she would be in isolation until she complied, which she has accepted - changing the terms on her just because she hasn't responded in the way they anticipated, is wrong imo.

Perhaps they don't have the staff to keep one bolshy little bugger in isolation indefinitely.

She is unlikely to be the only child in the school, and others, who are prepared to allow the rules to get an education, have to be considered, too.

I have a septum piercing that I used to twist up for work before I noticed one of my managers wore hers openly. Sometimes they can be painful/uncomfortable to put up there, or too heavy to stay all day depending on the shape of your nose and the piece of jewelry.

Does she know retainers exist? Have a look a septum retainers and maybe see if she'd be willing to compromise and wear one of them. You cant see them and they're just as comfortable as the ring.

She’s being even more ridiculous now.

I think I’d just be telling her now that as obviously she is the commander of her own life, when she gets expelled she can research a new school to go to, where she’ll know no one and probably impact her GCSEs. Which are important if they’re so shit you aren’t accepted into an apprentice scheme or A levels or whatever.

All because she won’t compromise. Because as has repeatedly been said, she could flip it up and no one would know.

Let her get suspended and make her time at home as boring as possible. Take away her phone, any money she has, change the WiFi password, take the plug off the tv.

free education that she doesn't get shot for attending - and she chooses to stuff it up for a ring through her nose. Self-important brat. I partly blame all those over-made-up instagram wastes of space, it lets fools like your daughter believe that you can get your own way by being nothing.

tell her you support the school fully. Good that you've already removed the chunk phone due to previous brattishness, now's the time to remove everything except food, shelter, clothing and transport to and from school. And yes, everyone ignores her except to educate her. Boring is as boring does.

good luck, she must be hard to love at the moment.

Her arguments are:
-I have a nostril piercing so I'm a massive hypocrite (I take mine out for work!!)
Non argument. As you say places have dress codes and rules and we all follow them (unless we're the grown adults who act like kids).

-Other people in her year have septum piercings (well yes but they flip them up and don't make a big show of it, on the rare occasion they wear them down, they get detention)
Other students have applied an ounce of common sense and accept the sanction for breaking the rules.
I don't understand the whole "rebellious enough to be cool and break the rules but cry about how unfair it is when the rules apply to you".

-She thinks if she gets suspended she's going to go to the papers and be on the news and the school won't like the bad publicity and will allow her back
Nonsense. The school won't care. All that will happen is she looks like a whiny, stroppy brat in the local press, the story will be on the internet forever (complete with the obligatory pout sad face). The press will ask the school for comment and the school will say something like: 'we don't comment on individual cases. Our uniform rules are clear and all students are given multiple opportunities to follow the rules. Exclusion is a last resort which we will use in the event of persistent defiance'.

I am going to look up homeschooling and online schools just in case this escalates, she has always been v stubborn so this isn't a new thing imo
Why? Why are you allowing her to dictate the terms she'll behave?
I know many stubborn students. Almost none of them are repeatedly defiant and dictate to their parents what they will / won't be doing regarding their education.

If she's big enough and mature enough and old enough to get a facial piercing against school rules, and big enough to decide she'd rather go to the press and so on than get her GCSEs then in afraid she can have her big girl pants on and is big enough and mature enough to explain to colleges and employers why her grades aren't that good. She can be all mature and tell them she prioritised a piercing over her education and that being able to do what she wants is the most important thing in her life. Then she's big enough to deal with the consequences.
Natural consequences i'm afraid.

(And I'm a teacher who can take or leave uniform as a concept).

I am going to look up homeschooling and online schools just in case this escalates, she has always been v stubborn so this isn't a new thing imo.
I know it must be hard and you are trying to do your best OP, but you are pandering to her by doing this. No wonder she's so entitled when everyone's bending over backwards to accommodate her brattiness

@Helpmeplease123456 she is loving this drama. Do not let her go to the papers she will look silly and loose her teachers respect in an important year for her.

She is clearly very immature OP, cyber bullying and now she is trying to bully you and the school. You have more power than you think, don’t stand for it!

Did she go to school today OP? Did she take it out? Or did you have to go and pick her up?

It's normal to want to break the rules, but not at the expense of her future. This act of defiance will follow her for life if she gets expelled.

It's not easy being a single parent as there's usually some misplaced guilt that the child does t have their father around. It's easier to be their friend than parent them effectively but it is possible to find a balance between the two. You have my sympathy there as I'm a single parent of 3 always trying to make up on some level for shit fathers but you need to step up now and be her mum. The school sound firm, fair and consistent. That's what you need to be.

I wouldn’t be looking up homeschooling. Let her school herself, if she’s up to it.

I realise that this is missing the point but I'm actually far more alarmed by the cyber-bullying (and, I assume, the real-life bullying of the "one poor girl in the class", because it's highly unlikely to just be taking place online). I know that you took your DD's 'phone away but was anything else done? Do you know that this behaviour has actually stopped? Is the school aware of it? If so, why are they looking at suspension over the nose ring but not taking action over the bullying?

I went to school with a girl who sounds an awful lot like your DD. I'd have been so relieved if she'd been suspended or excluded, I'm sorry to say.

but at the same time don't let the school risk her GCSEs because they have got themselves into a situation where they are butting heads with a stroppy teen.

It doesn’t work like that. Her job in that school is to focus and follow the rules. If she chooses not to, there are consequences. And it isn’t up to the parent whether the exclusion happens.