Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

“Even the photos of her at the airport leaving for her new life as a jahadi bride show her wearing western clothing and just a lose headscarf”

Yes, because it’s well known that the best way to get on a flight without arousing suspicion is with a full niqab, AK47 and a suicide belt. 🙄

It is hardly unusual to see covered women at an airport. No one would bat an eye if she was in full hijab going though an international airport.

It’s Amira Abase (who left with Shamima) who came from an extremist family. Her Dad claimed none of her daily were extreme but was pictures emerged at a rally celebrating the murder of Lee Rigby. Nobody knows where she is but Begum said she spoke to her in February. Anyone who’s ever been to Bethnal Green would no how ridiculous the statement they were not around extremists is, extremists in Bethnal Green are often quite open about it and it would be more unusual for teenagers to have never come across extremists in that area. The largest local mosque there is notorious for extremism and also targeting young people and it’s not something the local community is keen to combat.

puzzled, that’s exactly what it means. The UK is off limits to her forever, she is Bangladeshi now and will Remain Bangladeshi. It doesn’t revert when she’s 21.

The court case involving the Bangladeshi men aged over 21 confirmed that. In terms of Bangladeshi migrants their children having dual citizenship brings them quite a few benefits including flexibility to move between the two countries and enhancing their parents right to live here and the right of children and their parents to live in the same country. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of Bangladeshi children have exercised this right for decades without problem or incident and they usually provide a benefit for dual national children and families and Shamima and her family had opportunity to be treated in the same way as long as she did not commit serious crime. But she did.

She’s in the hands of Kurds and doesn’t seem to have made moves to leave. I suspect her long game is hoping the heat will come off her enough to sneak back to Europe, wait until a different Muslim state fails and go there, or otherwise attempt to find a husband who has citizenship of another Muslim country to take her in (for example Pakistan).

I do wonder how she would have been treated by the great British press if she had been blonde, blue-eyed, and they had some pictures of her in swimwear.

There have BEEN white, fair haired blue eyed ISIS converts. They were reviled by the press too.

puzzled, that’s exactly what it means. The UK is off limits to her forever, she is Bangladeshi now and will Remain Bangladeshi. It doesn’t revert when she’s 21

Thanks, Ibiza - and thanks again for the original, detailed explanation; I just wanted to be sure I'd understood correctly

There have BEEN white, fair haired blue eyed ISIS converts. They were reviled by the press too.

This is correct and Jack Lett’s is white, his British citizenship was stripped and his parents prosecuted. Sally Jones was blown up and she was notorious for years, absolutely reviled and rightly so because she took her poor little boy and made him a child soldier, he’s thought to be dead too. She only had one nationality so we couldn’t strip it and of course, she’s dead now. Samantha Lewthwaite is white British and reportedly running around Africa involved in terrorism with Al Shabaab. Linda Wenzel - she’s white German and absolutely reviled.

Besides, if I was a Syrian mother stuck in a refugee camp with my kids at deaths door and I saw someone swoop in and rescue a person who had come to my country to cause mayhem, death and destruction, I’d be really, really, fucked off.

Could she take her husbands Nationality- but I guess a religious marriage doesn’t count does it?

Why would the Dutch offer her citizenship? Doesn’t even look like they want the husband back so I doubt they want her as well.

Can’t you apply if married to a national? They don’t have to give it to you of course.

She made a choice and must live with the consequences.

She made a choice and must live with the consequences.

Don’t think anyone is disputing that, just whether other countries (ie, Syria/Bangladesh) should have to live with the consequences.

I feel sorry for Syria - the have had to contend with the dregs if humanity descending on them to cause chaos - and now they are stuck with the buggers (having to feed and house them).

Why would the Dutch offer her citizenship? Doesn’t even look like they want the husband back so I doubt they want her as well.

Come now, haven’t you read the memo? She’s everyone else’s problem, barring of course the country that actually spawned her. 🙄

You can apply but as they won’t recognise the illegal marriage of a 15 year old there is really not much point in even applying. In any event her husband is being held by the Kurds and unlikely to return to the Netherlands any time soon.

To those saying she should be brought back to the UK to face trial do you feel the same about other British citizens who commit crimes abroad, e.g. Lindsay Sandiford in Bali? Should we send people who've committed a crime here back to their home country?

@Ibiza2015
You seem to understand the process really well & have useful info. Why do you think she hasn’t tried to enter Bangladesh if she’s rightfully a citizen? Do you think Bangladesh would be more dangerous than Syria? I think I remember them saying if she returns she will get the death penalty?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD, she married when underage by dutch law so I would assume that the Netherlands do not have to recognise the union.

She can't get out of the camp in Syria as she is being held there. Whether her English solicitor (whom we are paying) or her father who is in Bangladesh has applied for a Bangladeshi passport for her to which she has a right I do not know but I suspect they would feel that would make their English case harder and only if that fails would joining her father in Bangladesh the next best option assuming Holland does not want her.

I feel sorry for Syria - the have had to contend with the dregs if humanity descending on them to cause chaos - and now they are stuck with the buggers (having to feed and house them).

I also feel sorry for Syria. And I feel we should support Syria in its rebuilding as so many of our citizens were responsible for destroying the country and killing many of its people.

I knew somebody who was killed by ISIS. He was a young doctor, kind and clever, all he wanted to do was use his skills to help people. He was burnt to death in a cage. ISIS are fucking evil. If you seriously think she deserves a second chance then may I suggest you watch a few videos of innocent, kind, hardworking people being tortured and burnt to death. And then tell me that smug, unrepentant, evil SB deserves a second chance.

By the way, if anybody’s interested, there’s a Facebook page called ‘Ask a Syrian’. It’s a great page and gives people the chance to ask any questions they may have about the country, its people, the war against ISIS, etc.

And then tell me that smug, unrepentant, evil SB deserves a second chance.

I’m not necessarily advocating a “second chance” as such. And if Syria want to try and fling her in a Syrian jail for crimes committed in their country then 👍 to them.

Assuming she would not be sentenced to life without parole in a Syrian prison, then presumably she has to go somewhere after release and I can’t see why Syria should want or have to hang onto her. They have their own problems.

If deportation is on the cards at some point, it becomes a question of where to deport her to. And I can’t for the life of me see why Bangladesh should have to deal with her any more than Syria.

I too consider that she was a groomed child. She was 15 ffs! She had many grooming adults around her telling her that her religion wanted this. Her friends did too. One of her friends had already gone to Syria and yet the authorities didn’t even tell her parents. They totally failed those girls. One is now dead. It’s catastrophically unfair to then abandon those who survived despite being left susceptible to known abuse.

She wasn’t primed for prime time telly when she was found in the camp and interviewed. She was heavily pregnant iirc. She didn’t say the right things or appear apologetic. She’d spent years in a war torn country, borne and lost two children by then, soon to lose a third. At 19. No wonder the poor girl didn’t say quite the right thing.

It’s a total tragedy. The only thing which would ameliorate that tragedy is to bring her back and use her rehabilitation to learn how to get to these young girls before it’s too late. Safety measures can easily be put in place. Her family is supportive.

That she shouldnt ever be allowed back

And yes. ISIS have done awful things. But I give you rendition, torture and Guantanamo as an example of this being the worst of human nature during war, adopted by the West just as much as anyone else. We are worse - our laws tell us not to and yet still we do.

15 isn’t a baby. She manages to seek out all the ‘life is wonderful here’ propaganda but somehow didn’t manage to engage critical brain when she saw photos of the murders and executions? The women who most likely loured here over showing their small children blowing up cars of ‘enemies’ etc. She saw that and still decided to go at all costs.