Shamima Begum....where do you stand?

[LeahSMS]

What are your thoughts?

AIBU to think she was only a child but unfortunately she’s now considered as a threat so therefore she will never return it’s not only about her safety but the people around her?

Tell me your thoughts

For the 'she was groomed' posters - she deliberately sought out the information in the first place didnt she? Who knows where it stemmed from, but IMO to seek out something like that, to follow it, to make contact, and then to go and join them sounds more like an active decision than being groomed.

I don't care about her. She has no loyalty to her homeland.

Erm @Brefugee not really a fair comparison though is it. Greta Thunberg May well be groomed and manipulated but has an element of free will and has chosen to go off and support climate emergency protests.

Shamima was also likely groomed but still made a choice to join ISIS even when the news here was full of reports of their murderous ways, hardly the same. Even we if assume both had diminished responsibility for their choices they were VERY different aims

I do wonder how she would have been treated by the great British press if she had been blonde, blue-eyed, and they had some pictures of her in swimwear. I'd bet you the story would have had a very different slant.

@TheSandman, you are talking absolute bollocks. And this kind of goady behaviour gives fuel to the flames of terrorism.

Samantha Braithwaite and that other nut-job, Sally something or other, were both blonde haired and blue eyed. They are not viewed differently.

Imagine you were in the twin towers when the planes hit (like my friends were), then imagine you're their family having to cope with the fact you didn't make it out of there. Now ask yourself that question....

Yeah no, I couldn't give a fuck about her personally

No way should she be allowed back

You make your bed etc ad nauseum

Sk which country do you nominate to deal with the British terrorist?

She should be left where she is.

It's pretty clear that lots of people don't understand grooming and manipulation.*

It's pretty clear that most people understand the concepts of responsibility and culpability. You don't. I'm pretty sure Ian Brady had a tough child hood, poor wee soul.*

I mean you've just proved the point there seeing as a tough and even abusive childhood is not the same thing as being groomed for a specific task.

To the people who think she should come back, do you want to live next door to her? Send your children off to school with her children in a few years, or have whoever she associates with visiting the road you live on?

Because I bloody don't. Unless you are prepared to be her neighbour maybe think twice about what you could be forcing someone else to deal with.

No I think she should come back and be jailed.
Are you neighbours with Ian Brady? Should we send him to Syria? Or maybe Spain?

How long do you think she would actually be jailed here?

Sk which country do you nominate to deal with the British terrorist?

The one she committed the crime in. Enough already with the "groomed" crap as if she temporarily became a different person altogether.

Are you neighbours with Ian Brady?

Of course not, the man is dead thank fuck, but no one should have to be his neighbour because he was influenced when he was a teenager or whatever BS excuse you are using.

I mean you've just proved the point there seeing as a tough and even abusive childhood is not the same thing as being groomed for a specific task.

Oh yeah, they're like totally and utterly different.

@lunar1 well I guess that would depend on what she is convicted of, just like any other criminal and, more importantly, just like every other ISIS associate who has returned.

I think she,s being treated unfairly. She was already being radicalised by her own very strict Muslim parents as a child and was still only a child when she left.
She's lost 3 children and it's very worring what she's seen. Is quite possibly traumatised. She should have been protected before she left. Where were child protection services then?

Keep the scum bag out

That is all

It depends how sorry she is. In her last interview she really didn’t seem to have given up on ISIS ideology.

Bring her back. She is a young woman who has lost 3 children. There must be intelligence she can share with our intelligence services or lessons that can be learned from her about grooming.

She should have been protected before she left. Where were child protection services then?

How the hell could child protection have been involved? She was in a closed radical family and was searching for extremist assistance.
Are you expecting CP to monitor every Muslim family, most of whom are perfectly innocent, peaceful people?

Allegedly lost 3 children. More likely invented 3 children to gain sympathy.

@LemonPrism - sorry, i wasn't clear, i don't think Greta T is being manipulated either, my post was clumsily trying to summarise what I read on the net. IE that some people say that Greta is being manipulated, but when other people say Sharmina Begum was being manipulated suddenly a 15 year old is in complete control.

I'm a bit about all the disbelief about how brainwashing and coercion works though. I often see "AIBU to LTB" followed by links to the freedom programme because it is absolutely understood that even grown women can be manipulated like that. So why is it so incredible that a 15 year old girl can't be manipulated.

There also seems to be some confusion about what letting her back into the country means. I can't speak for anyone else but I definitely don't want her arriving and then swanning off to her parents' house. I want her to be in custody while the charges against her are finalised. I'm not a law expert but I'm pretty sure we can do that with terror suspects.

And sure, there are many British citizens in prisons abroad. I'm not sure Syria has a functioning judicial system, so I'm not sure how that would work.

For sure it's a mess, but i think that we have to differentiate our country from something like ISIS. We place very high value on human rights and the rule of law and we can't cast that aside willy-nilly.

Good god don’t let her back in. She’s a scum bag. At that age she knew what she was doing.

IE that some people say that Greta is being manipulated, but when other people say Sharmina Begum was being manipulated suddenly a 15 year old is in complete control.

Well quite. That’s because the right wing know there’s a lot of sympathy for GT’s cause so cannot attack her as directly, so frame her as being manipulated. SB on the other hand supports a cause that has little sympathy so the gloves can come off and they can have a field day attacking her.

i also feel that SB isn't exactly what we'd call a wee photogenic little lass so she gets less sympathy because of that.

I remember back when the Bulger killers' photos were in the paper and looking at their young little faces and feeling very sorry, in fact, that by being absolute little bastards (well, i don't have the words) they had ruined their lives. And it was based on the fact that the one of them was actually a cute looking kid. (i don't feel sorry for their fate in the slightest, btw, it was well handled by the authorities - some of the latter things aside - in general)

But SB? I look at her and see what amounts to her "resting bitch face" and find it very easy to think "tough tits, you fucker" - i have to work hard at remembering the circs around her.

Puzzledandpissedoff, thank you, I read it properly the first time. I suspect you already know this really, but it's the 'no doubt' that was the pertinent phrase in your post, implying strongly that you feel that posters are eager to ascribe humanitarian motives to SB; which of course no one is claiming.