My DD's first boyfriend is transgender and I feel weird about it.

[Milicentbystander72]

I've always been a very liberal minded person. Supported gay rights all my life. My best friend and DN are gay. I support the rights of Trans people to live their life etc.

My dd15 has a nice group of friends (boys and girls). In that group is a Trans teen (Female to Male). He changed his name in Y8, He's totally accepted as Male at school. There are no issues. He looks completely Male and people who don't know him would never think that he'd been born female. He's a nice boy who is well liked. All good.

Except last night my DD told me she's going out with him. I've surprised myself that this has unnerved me.

My dd hasn't had a BF before. She's only ever snogged one boy before at a party. She says she's 100% straight. She says she fancies the cool older boys in Sixth Form. Has teenage celebrity crushes on boys like Tom Holland etc. So how does this work for her?

Last night I told her all was fine and just to be careful they didn't damage a friendship if they broke up etc, but I didn't make a big deal of it.

Would you find this weird if your dc said they were straight? Please be honest. I'm kind of hoping it fizzles out without any drama.

It seems even odder to put a post-pubescent child on puberty blockers

Actually there was a transman on YouTube who was out on puberty blockers because despite being on testosterone his levels of testosterone were too low and the oestrogen too high still so they put them on blockers to stop the production of oestrogen as they had had alot of problems with bleeding

What’s your understanding of when and why antipsychotics are prescribed in this setting? They don’t help with the learning disorders per se, why and when do you think they are used?

It is well established that they are used in people with learning difficulties. They are generally used for "behaviour that challenges" i.e. the people looking after them rather than for the benefit of the person themselves and the NHS is trying to reduce their use and encourage use of other interventions. So while we do know the adverse effects what is the evidence for benefits for the children taking the drugs? This is why I gave this example when you asked ""what other drugs were off-label treatment for children that pathologised their healthy bodies"

And, why do you never answer this specific question? Why are you advocating for the use of puberty blockers in gender dysphoric children when they don’t work?

I haven't advocated their use. I have just pointed out the obvious agenda of the people who claim that they are only concerned for the children taking the drugs. I have said that it is between the doctors , patients and parents but that is pretty much what you have said regarding antipsychotics in people with learning disabilities which is rather hypocritical don't you think?

I’ve patiently discussed antipsychotic usage in children with severe behavioural disturbances and explained my impression of their clinical usefulness for maybe 6 posts now.

Oh yes you have "patiently explained" that they are of benefit, well researched and they are only used in extreme circumstances while providing absolutely no evidence. The double standards are hilarious. Please provide links to research demonstrating that antipsychotics benefit people with learning disabilities.

woodchuck99

Can I just clarify as you are mixing terms, you say learning disabilities but then talk about children with asd, which is a neurological disability.
Just to be clear are the antipsychotic drugs being use on the latter, people with server autism whose behaviour is a danger to those around them.
Or on those with "learning disabilities" with challenging behaviour?

They are two very different things.a

So while we do know the adverse effects what is the evidence for benefits for the children taking the drugs?

Well, the children have fewer severe behavioural problems? The drugs work. They are calming. No one, except for you, who clearly as no idea about how this medication works is debating that.

Please provide links to research demonstrating that antipsychotics benefit people with learning disabilities.

They’re not prescribed to treat the learning difficulties, in fact that would be counterproductive because they are generally sedating. You don’t really know much about these drugs, do you? I suspect you’ve just had a bit of a google around and are making up stuff as you go along.

I haven't advocated their use. Which is odd because you’re vehemently opposing everyone who objects to them. Why is this? You continue to coyly hint at the “true agendas” of others - projection much?

Why are you so passionately defending puberty blockers in gender dysphoric children? why do you never answer this question directly?

You continue to coyly hint at the “true agendas” of others

If they cared about children the way they apparently do. Well they dont actually say they just imply we dont

Then they would worry about the 80 percent of children if left alone ,. Puberty would allow them to reconcile with their sexed bodies. 80 percent who if placed on.blockers would continue on the path as nearly 100 percent of children on blockers do, that are being mistreated. That's a hell of alot of kids .

But yeah it's all about agendas. That's what matters here

Can I just clarify as you are mixing terms, you say learning disabilities but then talk about children with asd, which is a neurological disability.

No I am not mixing terms. Antipsychotics are often used off label in both children with asd and also learning difficulties.

Because 10 year old Jimmy smashing his own head on his bedroom wall for 2 hours until he black out is terrifying.
12 year old Kate is stronger than her mum but can't understand getting showered, every other day she kicks, bite and punches her mum and her dad while they wash her.
11 year old Daniel is biting his own arms until they draw blood.

Antipsychotic medication can help children with autism who dispkay this type of behaviour.

No I am not mixing terms. Antipsychotics are often used off label in both children with asd and also learning difficulties.

Okay, so you do t actually know learning disabilities. That's fine

No I am not mixing terms. Antipsychotics are often used off label in both children with asd and also learning difficulties.

Lol.

And for the lurkers: prescriptions of some antipsychotics for children with severe behavioural disorders with ASD are not “off-label”. Did you know Woodchuck that there even guidelines for prescribing these in the paediatric British National Formulary; the U.K. prescribing “bible” for medication doses in children?

"behaviour that challenges" is not what you think it is. Anyone with even the most basic care training will know this.

It’s refreshing that your DD is so open minded and clearly untouched by people’s ability to be different. You brought her up right OP. But I’d be exactly the same and I can’t even tell you why I would feel that way. I wouldn’t even have a problem if DD was gay, or straight or bisexual. But I would feel weird about it for some unknown reason.

Perfectly acceptable to feel the way you do, and you’ve handled it well. My advice would be not to press on the issue, let her have a happy and safe relationship, with whomever asking as she’s knows them and are trustworthy.

Well, the children have fewer severe behavioural problems? The drugs work. They are calming. No one, except for you, who clearly as no idea about how this medication works is debating that.

Puberty blocking drugs work in that the prevent puberty. The question is whether they ultimately benefit the children themselves. If anyone suggests that they may be of benefit to some children you expect links to the research showing this while at the same time insisting that antispychotics are of benefit without providing evidence which is incredibly hypocritical.

They’re not prescribed to treat the learning difficulties, in fact that would be counterproductive because they are generally sedating.

Obviously they are not prescribed to treat the learning difficulties. That is the whole point. They are prescribed for healthy children which is why I gave it as an example when you asked “"what other drugs were off-label treatment for children that pathologised their healthy bodies"”

You don’t really know much about these drugs, do you? I suspect you’ve just had a bit of a google around and are making up stuff as you go along.

I know quite a bit thanks.

behaviour that challenges" is not what you think it is. Anyone with even the most basic care training will know this.

I suspect that woodcuck’s google of “controversial medications used in children” didn’t really impart any concept of clinical context. Especially as they are adamant that they’re used in children with “learning difficulties”. Like dyslexia, or dyscalculia? It’s very funny.

They are prescribed for healthy children

No they are not, if a child is displaying the behaviour i wrote about above they are not healthy.

I know quite a bit thanks.

Then why are you pretending not to?

It seems even odder to put a post-pubescent child on puberty blockers

As Sarah has already said, some adult trans people take these drugs as well as CSH. They are also known as 'hormone blockers', which gets away from the idea that they are only used during puberty. But a 15 year old who had been on them since early puberty wouldn't be post pubescent anyway.

This class of drugs is used in the treatment of many illnesses and conditions which are affected by sex hormones. These include prostate cancer, breast cancer, endometriosis and fibroids. They have also been used to chemically castrate sex offenders. Their side effects from short term use in adults are well known. What is not well known are the long term effects in children who take them for longer periods, followed by CSH, and never go through a natural puberty.

*You don’t really know much about these drugs, do you? I suspect you’ve just had a bit of a google around and are making up stuff as you go along.

I know quite a bit thanks.*

Sure you do.

If you did, then you would know that anti-psychotics are calming. They are on the national prescribing schedule in Australia for this purpose, they are in the UK BNF for this purpose. But you know this, presumably.

Basically, do just want to fill up the thread and not say why you support puberty blockers, don’t you?

*pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/137/Supplement_2/S124.full.pdfi

Here’s a succinct review article of medication used to treat behavioural difficulties in children with ASD (ie not psychotic). The two most effective medications were anti-psychotics.

I’m not “hypocritical” - these medications have been used for behavioural difficulties for years.

Where are your studies confirming that puberty blockers help with gender dysphoria?

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/137/Supplement_2/S124.full.pdf

And for the lurkers: prescriptions of some antipsychotics for children with severe behavioural disorders with ASD are not “off-label”.

I said that they are often off label. Not all antipsychotics are licensed for use in children with autism and most aren't licensed for people with learning difficulties.

If you did, then you would know that anti-psychotics are calming. They are on the national prescribing schedule in Australia for this purpose, they are in the UK BNF for this purpose. But you know this, presumably.

Where have I said that they are not calming? That doesn't mean that they are of benefit to people with the learning disability and as you say it certainly doesn't treat the disability. It just helps the people looking after them. Their use is in people with learning disabilities off label usually. Therefore it is an example of "what other drugs were off-label treatment for children that pathologised their healthy bodies"”

bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-015-0688-2

I think if you replace “learning difficulties” with “intellectual disabilities” then your googling would make more sense.

Here’s a nice article studying the effects of antipsychotics on children with behavioural problems and an intellectual disability. Essentially they are effective but have significant side-effects.

Isn’t it great that there are studies that demonstrate both the efficacy and side-effect profile of antispsychotics given to children with severe behavioural difficulties?

woodchuck where are the studies on the efficacy and side effects on the use of puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria?

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/137/Supplement_2/S124.full.pdf

That demonstrates that it might make it easier for carers to control behaviour that challanges but it doesn't demonstrate that it benefits the children themselves. Also, you keep bringing it back to autism when I specifically keep saying that they are overused in people with learning difficulties. Where is you evidence that people with learning difficulties benefit themselves from antipsychotics.

That doesn't mean that they are of benefit to people with the learning disability

Is that like "the cancer"?

Where have I said that they are not calming? That doesn't mean that they are of benefit to people

Behaviour is communication, woodchuck. If a child with ASD, or an intellectual disability or another neurocognitive disorder is aggressive, violent and profoundly heighten then they are distressed. If they are calm then they are not.

Where is the evidence that puberty blockers reduces the distress of gender dysphoria?