My DD's first boyfriend is transgender and I feel weird about it.

[Milicentbystander72]

I've always been a very liberal minded person. Supported gay rights all my life. My best friend and DN are gay. I support the rights of Trans people to live their life etc.

My dd15 has a nice group of friends (boys and girls). In that group is a Trans teen (Female to Male). He changed his name in Y8, He's totally accepted as Male at school. There are no issues. He looks completely Male and people who don't know him would never think that he'd been born female. He's a nice boy who is well liked. All good.

Except last night my DD told me she's going out with him. I've surprised myself that this has unnerved me.

My dd hasn't had a BF before. She's only ever snogged one boy before at a party. She says she's 100% straight. She says she fancies the cool older boys in Sixth Form. Has teenage celebrity crushes on boys like Tom Holland etc. So how does this work for her?

Last night I told her all was fine and just to be careful they didn't damage a friendship if they broke up etc, but I didn't make a big deal of it.

Would you find this weird if your dc said they were straight? Please be honest. I'm kind of hoping it fizzles out without any drama.

nolongersurprised

I'm not in Australia.

If drs have decided that the treatment doesn't work, is unsafe or risks outweigh benefits then their regulatory bodies (or malpractice insurance companies) will act to stop them from prescribing it.

A that I am saying is that I am content for the experts to study all available information and then decide accordingly. I am not in a position to pass judgement on either patients or drs.

And how do you propose to help these children and teens currently experiencing gender dysphoria if you succeed in banning these drugs? What proposals do you have for successful treatment instead of drug therapy?

Puberty blockers have powerful effects and side-effects. IF given from 10 years to 15 years what are the common side effects and how can they be mitigated?

How much bone density is lost, on average? What additional screening should be implemented? At what age should bone density scans be commenced? What’s the average IQ point loss? Is it largely executive function skills or wider effects on verbal comprehension? What effects are there on sexual function and libido? How are social relationships affected by inducing a prolonged child-like body?

This is where we are at:

The World Health Organisation declared in May 2019 that transgenderism is not a mental illness.

Children who present as transgender are not, therefore, mentally ill.

The UK's NHS clinic to which gender questioning children are referred reports a 5,337% increase in girls (1,460% increase in boys) presenting as transgender in under a decade. The gap between boys and girls being referred continues to widen year on year.

80% of children who claim they are transgender reconcile their gender identity with their biological sex over time if they are monitored and supported but left unmedicated.

Advocates of prescribing puberty blockers, designed for short-term use for the treatment of a specific medical condition (precocious puberty) claim that children will suffer mental distress and suicidal ideation if they are denied medication, contrary to the WHO's announcement that transgenderism is not a mental illness.

A 30 year Swedish study found that "mortality from suicide was strikingly high among sex-reassigned persons...after adjustment for prior psychiatric morbidity. In line with this, sex-reassigned persons were at increased risk for suicide attempts." Physical transition (of which puberty blockers is the first step, as children medicated in this way are significantly more likely to go on to cross sex hormones and surgery in their late teens) does not decrease suicidal ideation amongst transpeople.

The evidence available relating to puberty blockers indicates that their use leads to osteoporosis, compromised immune systems, sterility, arthritis, impaired pituitary function and lowered IQ. These adverse effects become more severe the longer the drug is taken. Research suggests these effects can not be completely reversed by stopping the medication.

Trans-supportive websites play down the side effects, tending to refer only to bone density and emphasising that any side effects are completely reversible, contrary to most current available evidence.

Children who are physically and (officially) mentally healthy are being prescribed medication designed for short-term use over the long term, in some cases for 6-7 years.

A that I am saying is that I am content for the experts to study all available information and then decide accordingly. I am not in a position to pass judgement on either patients or drs.

Exactly! “Study” is the operative word. There are no longitudinal studies on puberty-blocker use in this setting. There is no real “available information”.

So you agree that actual research into this area should be welcomed?

And how do you propose to help these children and teens currently experiencing gender dysphoria if you succeed in banning these drugs? What proposals do you have for successful treatment instead of drug therapy?

Why are you insisting on drug therapy as the gold standard when the drugs don’t work

To boil it down into a nutshell: people like Decomposing are claiming that children need puberty blockers to treat their mental distress. But presenting as transgender is not a mental illness and even if it were, transition does not alleviate mental distress. So where is the benefit of prescribing this medication to children to treat their gender identity issues?

presenting as transgender is not a mental illness and even if it were, transition does not alleviate mental distress
And remember that if transitioning doesn't alleviate mental distress, we should not be going along with it for children either.
And "going along with it" includes telling our children that this girl is now a boy.

DBT has been recommended as a distress alleviating treatment for my dysphoric child. Nobody is leaving distressed children in a room to 'grow out of it'.

I've also read a paper about a treatment which was a discussion group led by a psychologist in which people could discuss and analyse their feeling around sex, gender and gender role stereotypes. Apparently the number of people feeling they had to take oppostite sex hormones or surgically transition decreased after this intervention.

There needs to be way more research into helpng people deal with dysphoria in non-invasive ways. But that kind of research is verboten.

There seem to be a number of reasons for children being brought to gender clinics. Some of them have been victims of sexual abuse, a lot of have autism, some have homophobic parents, doctors have heard some children being coached by their parents in what to say, etc.

The causes should be treated, not the symptoms.

DBT has been recommended as a distress alleviating treatment for my dysphoric child. Nobody is leaving distressed children in a room to 'grow out of it'.

Many many distressed children are being left with no treatment for mental health conditions. Why would you think that provision is there to help trans gender children when it isn't available to help other children?

The evidence available relating to puberty blockers indicates that their use leads to osteoporosis, compromised immune systems, sterility, arthritis, impaired pituitary function and lowered IQ.

What side effects do children on steroid treatment have?

To boil it down into a nutshell: people like Decomposing are claiming that children need puberty blockers to treat their mental distress.

No not necessarily. I'm saying that it's for drs and their patients to decide what treatment is best for that individual. It's not up to the court of public opinion to decide.

What side effects do children on steroid treatment have?

Are children also being given steroids off-licence for gender dysphoria? Why?

Why would you think that provision is there to help trans gender children when it isn't available to help other children?

So we should give children presenting as transgender any old shitty treatment to shut them up - even where that is very likely to do them harm rather than help them - because at least it gets them off the over-stretched NHS CMHT waiting lists for now?

The fact that NHS mental health services have been stripped to the bone is not sufficient justification to do harm to children on an increasing scale year on year. Perhaps some of the money currently being poured into the departments dealing with physical transition and preparation for same could be diverted into CMHTs instead? And it's going to cost a hell of a lot more down the line when the lawsuits for medical malpractice start flying in from people who realise they were sold a lie and have been left irreparably physically - and possibly mentally - damaged by it.

Are children also being given steroids off-licence for gender dysphoria? Why?

No. Just the side effects that you listed are quite similar to the side effects of long term steroid treatment and no one seems to be too bothered about children receiving them. Just wondering why?

So we should give children presenting as transgender any old shitty treatment to shut them up - even where that is very likely to do them harm rather than help them - because at least it gets them off the over-stretched NHS CMHT waiting lists for now?

My question was more referring to where is all of this mental health support magically going to come from if you succeed in banning current treatment.

Someone upthread proposed watchful waiting and when I questioned how this helped children in distress I was told that children wouldn't be in distress,they would be given DBT. I'm asking how would this be achieved given the very long waiting.lists and lack of provision for child mental health services currently.

What would the treatment landscape look like for trans gender children under your proposal?

Just wondering why?

Probably because prevention of breathing due to asthma is deadly and steroids are proven to help.

Puberty Blocker are for healthy children and do not help.

I'm saying that it's for drs and their patients to decide what treatment is best for that individual

Like the Drs Webberley you mean?

It's a placebo effect enhanced by social pressure isn't it? Only potentially worse than placebo because of the potential physical harms. This sugar pill is the treatment for transgenderism. There, do you feel better now? Great, it's working. Do you feel worse? Good thing you took the pill then or you might have killed yourself by now.

Or maybe it isn't - we need evidence. But collecting evidence is transphobic and bigoted if it includes any less than successful outcomes. Hmm, problem.

NB placebo works, better than no treatment. The more serious looking the placebo, the bigger the effect. Puberty blockers are certainly big and serious. So in the default of anything else going on, puberty blockers would be expected to show a small benefit to mental wellbeing. Impossible to control for though I'd think.

Like the Drs Webberley you mean?

Are they the only drs prescribing this then?

Haven’t RTFT and I can see the discussion’s moved on. Just wanted to add:

You feel uneasy because you know - as we all do, because it runs absolutely contrary to everything we understand on a kind of deep cellular level - that this whole thing is a lie. Being asked to participate in a lie is innately demotivating and dispiriting.

The way to feel better is to tell the truth, and that’s difficult with a child in this situation, I should imagine, when you want to stay connected to your child. I hope you find a way through it.

And in Australia, anitipsychotic medications are prescribed for children with psychosis and for children with severe behavioural disturbances associated with ASD. These are not prescribed off-licence and their effects and side-effects (myriads of them) are well described).

Why are you talking about Australia? This is a UK forum. None are licensed in the UK including risperidone so they are prescribed off label and often the prescribing isn't considered justified especially when there are safer options. The fact that we know the side effects of a certain drug doesn't mean that unnecessary prescribing of them is not a concern and yet your outrage and those of other poster seems limited only to puberty blockers.

thirdfiddle we do not know if there is any improvement following puberty blockers. Indeed early results suggested they made things worse in nearly every measure. But as this is a cohort study (and one which fails to measure all relevant outcomes) there is no way to work the efficacy or effectiveness. Not just placebo but also regression to mean but, most likely, confounding.

What really does any of this have to do with the op though?

She doesn't suggest that the child concerned is on puberty blockers so I'm not sure what relevance it has to the op anyway.

Funny thing about MN threads that you might observe if you visit often - threads move on from the OP, conversations evolve. And it is allowed!

And it is allowed
Ha, I like this, it made me laugh - it's usually "wah, derail!" or "who sent in the sealion" bollox so obviously it's only allowed one way