To think this won't ruin Christmas?

[CaterpillarInTheGarden]

Mil was saying it won't be long until dc will believe in santa-claus (dc is only 22 months so surely it would be next Christmas not the upcoming Christmas ). I mentioned we were thinking of not doing the whole santa-claus thing and telling him the truth. Mil said how awful I was, and I will be ruining Christmas for my dc and that I'm a very selfish women.

AIBU to think that's a over reaction and it won't ruin Christmas. Any of you not do the whole santa-claus thing for Christmas?

Don’t confuse magical childhood with consumerism

No one is doing that, try not to be so dismissive of cultural practices you clearly don’t understand.

@PookieDo I agree with your comment.

What do I not understand?

Take Harrods Grotto
It is fully booked. It is September

Hamleys - almost fully booked. It’s £39.99.

I’ve seen the queues in past years - I would never pay to make my DC stand it in

My local garden centre is only £8, but I saw on FB last year it was about 2-3 hours to queue

Lapland holidays - quick google tells me its £1000 for 3 or 4 days

@Moomin8 so many of my friends have said the same. They felt betrayed at being lied to especially by their mother. The one person who they trust the most.
I never believed in Santa Claus or anything but still had fun and I didn't get the whole sack of presents either. I'm glad I knew the truth from a young age.

We also have child focused consumerism in the form of:

-Elf on the shelf. Not just the toy, which can now be customised to your actual child and is about £15+
-The Story books
-Book of hints and tips for parents (£20)
-DVD’s

-Special Christmas plates for Santa
-Special Christmas cups for Santa
-Reindeer food

• special Christmas PJ’s
• Christmas Movies/films
• Christmas Eve boxes
• Personalised video responses from Santa

This all feeds into what the parents think is magical for the children, so they keep buying into it.

The magic of Christmas is now a multi billion dollar industry and growing. Fundamentally it is a nice story that can make childhood memories but don’t lie to yourselves that it isn’t led by consumerism more and more nowadays.

I would be surprised (and not believe you) if any of the Christmas aficionados here haven’t indulged in all this crap

My nearly 4 year old made a picture for Father Christmas and left it on the door mat for him to find.
It's going to be a long 3 months

I cannot imagine any well rounded adult feeling betrayed because their parents lied about Santa.

You can do what you want regarding Santa visits, volume of gifts etc but to deny a child the magic of Santa is, for me, denying them one of the great joys of childhood.

Our most memorable moments around Christmas aren't necessarily centred around Santa or consumerism (although the grotto visit is fab, albeit low key)

What do I not understand?

That Santa is as consumerist or non consumerist as you wish to make it. A tiny proportion of people who do Santa go to Lapland.

Generally speaking we live in a consumer focused society. Our economic models are based around that. People spend money on all kinds of shit for all kinds of reasons. Direct your concern at that.

You don’t have to buy any of the shit if you don’t want to. The same applies to Halloween, Easter, Summer holidays, etc, etc. People have a choice.

Elf on the shelf

This one I particularly don’t get. Our elf cost €5, he’s on his third year (and will have many more in him). He’s given us so much fun as a family without spending another penny.

I would be surprised (and not believe you) if any of the Christmas aficionados here haven’t indulged in all this crap

Aside from our 5 euro elf, no I haven’t.

But what’s the point of having a debate with someone if you off the bat declare you don’t believe anything they say?

Both our sons were told about Santa youngest set a trap over his bedroom door so when some presents were placed at the bottom of his bed it went off!However other son almost 30 each Christmas "he lives abroad time difference" will text to say he has looked out of his window to see if he can see his sleigh.Harmless fun in my opinion.

'You may want your child to know the truth but what about when the blab to their friends. I would be seriously pissed if your kid spoilt it for for one of mine because you decided to be a Scrooge. Keep the magic alive for your child and their friends please. It’s such a magical time for kids.'

(1) Children are MORE likely, at least in my experience, to blab to their friends if they have believed in Father Christmas for several years, and then find out it's not true and feel that this is a sign of maturity: 'There's no Father Christmas; only babies think that!' I agree that parents shouldn't make a big thing about telling their children that there ISN'T a Father Christmas; but I don't think that people should feel obliged to tell them that there IS, just to prevent possible embarrassment or offence to others. It should just be treated as something that many people do and some other people (Jews, Muslims, Hindus, certain Christian sects, and just people who aren't 'into' it) don't. Live and let live! I don't think most young children are, in any case, all that preoccupied with the strict 'truth' of pretend and magic characters. They are just enjoyable (or sometimes scary).

(2) I don't think there's anything 'Scrooge-ish' about not believing in Father Christmas, so long as one is generous to others. Dickens' Scrooge was lacking in the Christmas spirit because he was stingy and selfish toward others, especially his employees, not because of anything to do with believing or not believing in Father Christmas.

I have nothing against Father Christmas, and don't think that kids who believe in him are being lied to in an immoral way, etc.; but I am worried that some posts on the thread are demanding a sort of rigid conformity to tradition over this as the ONLY right thing, in a way that would not nowadays be accepted with regard to most other traditions or customs.

My DD is 7 and we've told her from the beginning that Santa isn't real. She loves Christmas still, it's still magic. Instead we pretend Santa is real sometimes. It depends on her mood.

I don’t need personal signed confessions from people to know that they are indulging in this tat because Christmas consumerism hasn’t fallen has it?

It doesn’t fit well with me for the main reason that it is a grotesque industry (focused mainly around children’s innocence and parent willingness to make their children happy) which excludes people in poverty.

The ‘spirit is Christmas’ is lost within society and the true meaning doesn’t seem to actually exist outside of your own front door. Families living in poverty fall so far outside what Christmas really means now, it isn’t as if Santa grottos are free for any child to visit, no matter if rich or poor? So not all children can enjoy the same things, there is a huge disparity

When queuing at your grotto in Hamleys this only benefits your children and Hamleys - which is fine to admit this. But don’t lie to yourself that it is just simply a magical act of special memory making it is not a selfish act of consumerism

I found out about Father Christmas when I was four, I can't remember believing in him.
I still found Christmas magical.

I prefer to keep things low key with my own kids. We do the little rituals but I don't let them think the grotto Father Christmas is real, that they are being watched or that the Elf is a messenger.
I don't really mind if a child at school tells them it's parents.
I'm sure most children naturally question why Jamie gets two lots of FC presents, some at Mum's and some at Dad's, why he delivers Anna a stocking of bits and bobs when he brought Emily an X box and a bike, if they do the Shoe box appeal I'm sure they wonder why those children get nothing from Father Christmas. There is always going to be something that doesn't fit with the story they're being told and that's fine by me.

• But don’t lie to yourself that it is just simply a magical act of special memory making it is an selfish act of consumerism

I don’t need personal signed confessions from people to know that they are indulging in this tat because Christmas consumerism hasn’t fallen has it?

Not much point in engaging with you any further now is there. Best of luck with everything.

Spirit OF Christmas
Damn stupid phone today!

I have my opinion you have yours

Do you want to engage with me to make me change my mind? What do you want to engage with me about? Just to pick out all the elements of my posts that don’t apply to YOU? Good for you. I wasn’t personally talking about YOU anyway

We haven’t told DD that FC doesn’t exist, but we just don’t make a big deal out of it. Presents come from us and other relatives. We still have a wonderful Christmas Day involving lovely food, presents and church for those of us that believe (DH doesn’t go to church). DD has a stocking but we just don’t talk about FC in relation to it. She knows who he is as they really big up the excitement about it at nursery, but doesn’t seem bothered so far about it not being a thing at home.

Betrayed by their parents for lying 😂😂😂 give over!

I have no intention of doing it. I distinctly remember being upset after Christmas that father Christmas gave me a gift bag with little tidbits whilst 'he' gave my friends these massive expensive gifts and wondering if I hadn't been good enough.
My nearly 3yo is terrified of him anyway (already saying she doesn't want to go into shops with the Christmas bits out already) so I don't have to worry about it this year!

Mind you, your personal techniques for shutting down the argument in here don’t appear to be working

It's quite tough to 'shut down an argument' (should someone actually want to do that) when there isn't one happening. Just a stream of people posting how they absolutely cannot understand why someone would do things differently from them, punctuated by people explaining why they do things differently from those people, and being ignored.

And the fun thing is, I've watched this exact debate unfold at this time for 14 years in a row now. It never changes. British people are just a bit weird about Father Christmas...

@Pookiedo I agree that some of it is very over-consumerised (is that a word??) but people don't have to do all the crap! I have never queued to see Santa in an expensive garden centre etc, nor bought an elf on the shelf (wasn't a thing...) but we have:

• gone to said garden centre because it has enormous beautiful decorated displays with animal scenes and snow, so magical, the kids adore it! We bypass the grotto and look at the donkeys and the reindeer in the pens. Go early, miss the crowds and spend nothing!
• done a santa steam train, a santa barge trip and a santa train at a zoo - all inexpensive and DCs knew 'Santa' was a bloke dressed up. Again, all magical, wonderful memories.
• been to the village event to switch on the lights, where the Local Lions club send a Santa to play carols and give out sweets.
• put out a drink on Xmas Eve and some food for the reindeer.

The north pole personalised videos are free and my DS used to think that was so amazing!

My DCs never worried about a strange man in the house, but it wouldn't be hard to say he actually just magics the presents indoors. Many people don't even have chimneys anyway...

I don't deny some people may go totally OTT - their choice, if they can afford it then it's up to them. And there may be issues with different families giving different presents - but in my experience children don't discuss who gave what, just what they got (yes very materialistic I know..). Mine get loads of socks, pants, sweets and bubble bath etc because I love them to have lots of presents but don't intend to spend a lot of money (I'm lucky, we can afford things, but I'm tight...). I'm sure we'd have fun without the myth of Father Christmas, but it certainly adds to it for the little ones!

And the fun thing is, I've watched this exact debate unfold at this time for 14 years in a row now. It never changes. British people are just a bit weird about Father Christmas

The interesting thing is what that tells you. That FC occupies a powerful cultural significance for the British that goes far beyond logic.

If you think the Brit’s are bad, try Ireland. Santa is even more important and valued here.