To think school spelling lists are unrealistic?

[ACupOfTeaSolvesEverything]

DS has just started Year 4 and as he has a summer birthday he is only just 8 years old.
The spellings he comes home with seem very difficult for his age. Pic attached. AIBU?

He struggles with written expression anyway and usually gets zero on all spelling tests despite reading well ahead of his chronological age. We are still trying to learn Year 2 spellings.
I know his spelling ability is unusually poor but that aside I think these words are hard for an only just 8 year old to be expected to spell...

@PlinkPlink they are grouped though - the majority are negating prefixes.

Giving all the “ate” words together probably isn’t that effective. Instead of learning that straight isn’t spelt strate, you just do the test knowing you just have to put “ate” every time. I say probably because I don’t have research to back that up - but it seems logical to me.

The best way to remedy poor spelling IS through wide and varied reading.

I’m fairly certain there’s a significant body of evidence that disproves that. IIRC about half or maybe fewer good readers are also good spellers.

In your position I’d get a copy of That Spelling Thing, OP. Then I’d just pick 2-3 spellings a week from the list the school gives.

Apples and Pears is the other spelling scheme that tends to be highly recommended.

Most of these words are used by children in their writing even before year 4, so it looks like a very realistic list.

Well obviously if they are mumsnetters’ kids they are all using them in Y2. Meanwhile, back in the real world ...

Sending lists of words home is not a method of teaching spelling, which should be explicit teaching of the alphabetic code.

This website is v useful for practice*:

www.spellingframe.co.uk

*Practice/practise is a Y6 spelling objective - I was at an Ofsted briefing yesterday which proved fairly conclusively from their documentation that Ofsted have no clue.

Don’t panic everyone! He’s on the SEN register and school are accommodating in many other ways. He has a couple of diagnoses with more assessments underway. We use methods suggested by his OT to help learn spellings, mostly involving movement and tactile feedback.
Spellings don’t get him down, I just thought the list looked hard.

I agree that these are generally age appropriate for Yr 4. One of our Yr 4 words last week was oesophagus - and that's not appropriate as far as I'm concerned!!

Both my DC don't find spelling easy and to be honest I don't push it at home, there are more important things to worry about. If they do well then we celebrate it but otherwise try to take it as it comes.

As a secondary teacher I'm more worried about them being exposed to as many words as possible and using them in context (rather than getting the spellings right).

The one thing that we do sometimes do if the DC want to really focus on a certain set it to write them on the mirror in the bathroom with a chalk pen. They see them at least twice a day when cleaning their teeth. Exposure but without pressure.

Do they still teach phonics these days? I have a pretty good chance of spelling most things correctly as we were taught phonics from grade one. Once you know what combinations make what sounds, the spelling makes sense.

Example mis-be-have; mis-sp-ell.

My 8 year old could have managed but I know some in her class couldn’t. ”he has the same test as everyone else”. is a problem. Even back when I was at primary school over 30 years ago, kids had different groups of spelling words and still do now. I’d be very surprised if every kid in the class gets the same words.

More likely, he gets the same words as everyone else in his reading group, and that’s as it should be. I have to say, having an avid reader above his level but with an inability to spell is quite unusual.

We use an app called Squeebles. You type in the list of words, voice recording each word too. Child sees the word and hears it the it disappears after so many seconds and they try and type it in. They earn points which they then get to use in a game. It’s great for a quick 5 minute blast every day and has worked wonders with my dd! I think it was around £3 to buy but we’ll worth it.

CecilyP

My kids are in a bog standard state school, in the real world, and yes, by year 2 they start writing about appears, unkind, disagree and so on. They've start reading about describe and complete from the first time they have homework..

HOW is that such a shock for some people? Do you even have kids?

www.teachitprimary.co.uk/resources/y4/spelling-for-older-learners/writing-transcription/spelling-word-lists-year-4/19712

oesophagus and that's not appropriate as far as I'm concerned

Probably challenging for most year 4s but it is manageable as long as you’re not trying to spell letter by letter.

Sorry, just read the update. SEN help is a good idea!

I have to say, having an avid reader above his level but with an inability to spell is quite unusual.

It really isn’t!

Yabbers
I’d be very surprised if every kid in the class gets the same words

They definitely do. The teacher confirmed that they have spelling groups but also all use a particular book together as well and once a fortnight all sit the same test.

My summer born DS in Y4 had, amongst others, extreme, submerged, cooperate, famous and autograph last week. Those were the ones he managed to learn. The other five were just ridiculously hard.

I hate spellings because he gets so upset that he can't do them and he thinks everyone else is better than him 😣

I'll add our spelling was also taught in groups eg

Group
Soup
Hoop
sloop
Coop
Moon
soon

You'd learn oo says oo but also ou makes the same sound.

Then you'd get another combination of eg ou making a different noise like ow. So

Bough
Cow
How

Etc etc

It taught you how words were made up. Spelling isn't just a random arrangement of letters.

@Ellisandra ah sorry, yes I forgot to mention that they used to throw in a few 'red herrings' as it were... like straight, gait, fate... that kind of thing.

It seemed more logical at the time.

I think where the school is missing a trick are there are lots of words in this group with the same beginning of mis - if the school had listed the 5 words with mis in a row then it would be easy for your son to see he needs to remember the three letters mis and then a word he would hopefully know already like read. ie misread and the list would look lessdaunting. Two words have the word 'in' in them - unkind and inactive. I would go through the lost with him and break things down. I would give my children triggers ie appear as a pear in it.

I'm really struggling to understand why the teacher isn't differentiating the spellings for your son. You say he has a couple of diagnoses, and school acknowledge and accommodate his SEN in other areas, so why not for spellings.

Whilst he might not get upset about scoring 0 in the tests. I can't work out why they keep putting him through such an unpleasant situation, when the outcome is obviously going to be the same each week.

He needs a differentiated set of spellings. The school should be able to accommodate his needs . Most classes will have at least 3 different spelling groups by year 4 .
Work through the high frequency words with him and home . Eg first 100 , then move on to 2nd etc

My kids are in a bog standard state school, in the real world, and yes, by year 2 they start writing about appears, unkind, disagree and so on.

But they’re mumsnetters kids! Are you sure all the other kids do the same?

HOW is that such a shock for some people? Do you even have kids?

What an odd question! DS definitely didn’t write those words in P3 but the he didn’t write much at all at that age.

The list is appropriate for the average yr4 however I think it's unfair to say that they don't differentiate the spellings for a child who is struggling. What's the point in getting 0 in every spelling test. He won't learn anything and it's damaging for his self esteem. They should test on the yr2 common exception words that you're learning at home.

I've just downloaded squeebles, looks brilliant! Thank you.

But they’re mumsnetters kids! Are you sure all the other kids do the same?

I have no idea who is a mumsnetter kid in the class

I know that my youngests are definitively not top of the class, so I am pretty sure there are more than a few kids who write a lot better than they do. I have seen paragraphs selected from the top of each class (they are in the newsletter), and some children have an amazing vocabulary!

Looking at various lists for that age group, the OP's list is really not unreasonable.

I have an 8 year old. List looks fairly standard to me.

I have 2 DC who can spell and a middle one who cannot. Neither the school nor I did anything different to cause this. The 2 who can spell never had to bother learning the list. The one who can't could recite and write lists ad infinitum without ever learning to spell them. No amount of reading made any difference.

Paradoxically, the non-speller is better at writing and reading comprehension than her spelling siblings.