To think school spelling lists are unrealistic?

[ACupOfTeaSolvesEverything]

DS has just started Year 4 and as he has a summer birthday he is only just 8 years old.
The spellings he comes home with seem very difficult for his age. Pic attached. AIBU?

He struggles with written expression anyway and usually gets zero on all spelling tests despite reading well ahead of his chronological age. We are still trying to learn Year 2 spellings.
I know his spelling ability is unusually poor but that aside I think these words are hard for an only just 8 year old to be expected to spell...

[AuditAngel]

Has he been tested for dyslexia?

He sounds just like my son, who has no issues reading, but spelling is atrocious. They explained it to me that usually when we spell a word, we “see” a picture of it in our head and copy it. DS doesn’t have this picture recall.

He also can’t copy words from one sheet to another, we can get 3 spellings of the same word in a paragraph, even if it is in the text.

[EmeraldShamrock]

No not to hard, he may have issues processing transferring to paper. My DD is an excellent reader, she has processing issues, she finds it difficult to transfer to paper.
Concentrate on getting them in by memory, then speak to the teacher.
My DD gets lots of answers correct on the shout outs, or if teacher is using a formula on the whiteboard, her written test results are awful, she finds it difficult taking down homework from board to journal.

[scoobydoo1971]

My daughter is 8, a summer baby. She would struggle with that spelling list despite normal IQ, but she has the following conditions: auditory processing disorder, visual processing disorder, severe dyspraxia and sensory processing disorder. Her previous school did not want to support her because she had average attainment in subjects (with help from home). They claimed she had mental health problems and needed CAMHS! She is a happy normal child outside school. We now home school her as she is stressed in the classroom.

SENCO input was rubbish and denied any suspicion of SEN. They refused testing or screening as she wasn't behind enough. So, I directly requested a speech and language therapist exam which revealed some difficulties. This led to the NHS Occupational therapy service being involved, and I took her to audiology where the processing difficulties were assessed. I also got a private occupational therapist to diagnose dyspraxia. My point to you is that if you suspect there are difficulties, don't leave it to the SENCO to act as this is your child and they will suffer from lack of appropriate support. This can impact on self esteem and academic progress. You have to be an advocate for your own child to get them help.

[ravenmum]

Out of interest I got out my 1975 "Essential Spelling List". In those days an 8-year-old was supposed to be able to spell e.g:
playground
inch
number
grandfather
queen
wife
hoped
bright
downstairs
(I've tried to choose the harder ones; it also lists e.g. "boy".)

The words in your modern list seem a good bit harder to me, especially as some are words an 8-year-old might not even understand the meaning of. "Mislead"?

[WaterSheep]

ravenmum That's fascinating. I love to see how things like spellings today compare to those taught in the past.

[RiftGibbon]

Looks an easier list than my DC brings home. The school do allow for some differentiation, which is helpful for less able pupils, but they are bound by the curriculum
That said, given the appalling levels of SPAG I see on a daily basis, there needs to be more focus on being able to work and construct sentences correctly (dyslexia and other matters aside).

[CecilyP]

Raven, your list sounds much more realistic and certainly contains words children are likely use in their own writing.

[Love51]

Last year my year 1 came home with words in his spelling tests that he didn't even know the meaning of - I was surprised school hadn't discussed the words at all.
My brother was one of those kids who was an excellent reader and really struggled with spelling, to the point that is was difficult to work out what he was trying to convey. One week in a spelling test the word was necessary, he didn't stand a chance so wrote r-e-q-u-i-r-e-d. The teacher let him have the mark. I really struggle to see the point of learning to spell lists of words. Most people learn through avid reading, those with dyslexia or who can't 'sound out' need support.

[TomHagenMakesMyBosomTremble]

They look fine to me. I'm a summer born dyspraxic & they're about the level I had in yr 4/5. TThis would be late 90s.

[hushnowthanks]

@CecilyP that’s the point I was making. The best way to remedy poor spelling IS through wide and varied reading. The OP has told us that her son is a competent reader. Therefore, there’s either some other barrier or it’s simply not a strength of that particular child.

[CatteStreet]

My ds2 struggled/struggles with spelling despite reading very well for his age (once he learned - it took a long time to click, particularly repetitions of sounds within a word, which I think is also indicative of the issue) and being markedly bright (not 'gifted' but clearly well above average). We live in a country where a lot of dictation happens in primary and he really struggled with that until it all came together in year 6. He still makes errors when not thinking about it. He was tested and spelling came out as average but with some poor strategies (so no dyslexia diagnosis for us). I'm pretty certain he has issues in specific areas of perception/processing which are hard for standard tests to pin down. I think I'd be looking at a private assessment in your position. We did, as indicated, get our dc assessed (this was also in conjunction with some traits that suggested ASD and continue to do but are clearly below any diagnostic threshold and with which he is mainly coping well atm) and find it slightly frustrating that there appears to be no way of really 'picking up on' his difficulties but he appears to be compensating for them with his general ability now.

[CleverLoginName]

Our DS used to have to make sentences using the 20 words he had to learn and weren't allowed to change the tense of the words given. That was a task sometimes!

[Maldives2006]

@ACupOfTeaSolvesEverything

School have a duty to differentiate work and provide reasonable adjustments. My dyslexic/adhd son (11year old/year) is the same reads really well, spells atrociously and has huge problems planning and doing written work.

You need to talk to school about assessing him and providing him with an IEP.

[Ellisandra]

@Love51 you can’t make a child be an avid reader though.

My 11yo has grown up in a home full of books.

I read to her from the day she was born, she sees me read, she’s surrounded by books. She has spent many an hour in Waterstones reading the backs and having me read excerpts to her.

She didn’t live in a home with a TV until she was 7.

I was a total bookworm, and it dismays me that she is not. In Y5/6 she was marked as “exceeding target” for reading and understanding. She CAN read. She likes to be read to. But she just does not read herself.

So I can’t rely on avid reading to expose her to words - instead, it’s spelling lists. Without them, her spelling would be atrocious.

[FrauHaribo]

Most of these words are used by children in their writing even before year 4, so it looks like a very realistic list. For the few words that they don't, adding them to the spelling list means they are encouraged to use them to.
I cant' see any issue at all.

The school not doing enough to help an individual child struggling is a separate issue.

[GetKnitted]

Hi,
The spellings look age appropriate, but I do sympathise with the mismatch between your son's current stage and the expected level. My DS is 11, but similarly was/is a great reader and terrible speller. If you wanted to help your DS bring up his spelling from his own level, you could try this resource: www.topical-resources.co.uk/get_sample_file/1675/ which has spellings from year 3 on, or this one, which is even earlier : www.topical-resources.co.uk/get_sample_file/1675/ that way he would be more encouraged by getting more correct? I think it is a real shame that they don't differentiate the spellings.

[GetKnitted]

sorry, I don't know how the second link ended up the same!

www.topical-resources.co.uk/get_sample_file/1532/

[CecilyP]

The best way to remedy poor spelling IS through wide and varied reading.

I still disagree. While you are unlikely to be able to spell a word if you have never seen it written down, so wide and varied reading may help in this respect, the poor speller tends to misspell everyday words so reading more and more widely does not help. Once we are fluent readers we do not look at the individual letters in words all that closely after all.

[PlinkPlink]

What has happened to the old spelling tests? You know where they group words together based on similar sounds 'plate, mate, late, skate, contemplate, template' etc.

Why are they all random words?

DS joins in a couple of years so have no idea what primary school is like now but the spelling tests seem to be completely random.
Some are topic based groupings, I get that, but I've never seen any groups of similar words on my DN's tests 🤔

[WoodyOak]

This is really sad that the teacher is putting him in a position when it's known he will fail. What a knock to his self esteem. Totally pointless to give him words that he's not ready for - there is no benefit to this. It won't improve his spelling and he will become disengaged from learning. If I were you, I'd work on ability appropriate words and build up his confidence. I'd also be telling the teacher to not administer spelling tests to him and he can use that time to practise the words. You can buy a Collins Spellchecker for around £20 which would really help him during writing lessons.
I am a teacher by the way!

[MonChatEstMagnifique]

My 6 year old could spell most of them so an 8 year old should learn them easily

You've managed to boast about your own child and put OPs down in one sentence....ffs.

OP, I would say they are spellings that a lot of year 4 kids could learn but if you're son is struggling then the school should be understanding and give him appropriate spellings for his ability. If not, just continue to pick a couple each week like you are and tell him to try his best. I hope it doesn't affect his confidence, I know a quite a few very successful people who aren't the best at spelling.

[ahhRats]

I work in yr 5 and we have 4 different sets of spellings in the class to cater to the needs of the child.
Some are still on the 100 hf words. Others working well above expected. Its demoralizing and counter productive to test them at expected age if they have no grasp at a lower target.

[CecilyP]

Ellisandra, your DD sounds like DS, who learned to read, felt he could tick the ‘can read’ box, but had no interest in reading unless strictly necessary. However, he is actually a good speller.

[CrotchetyQuaver]

We still remember the traumatic Sunday nights we had with our daughter getting her to learn the spellings for the year 4 Monday test and she's 24 now. These days we all laugh about it, but at the time she would be screaming shouting and crying and it took about 3 times as long as it should have, due to the howls of protest and extreme resistance thus leaving it all to the absolute last minute. She got there in the end but goodness, it was tough going. Thankfully the other one found spelling easy, I'm not sure how we would have managed with 2 resisting every step of the way.
Of course when she got them all right in the test, she was so pleased with herself...

[M3lon]

cecilyp of course you are right - I've been reading this whole thread wondering why some kids can read years ahead and not spell words like 'word' correctly (my DD is one) but of course its because phonics is essentially bollocks and reading happens at the word recognition level most of the time.

Is any of this learning spellings actually worth while in the modern world?