To think school spelling lists are unrealistic?

[ACupOfTeaSolvesEverything]

DS has just started Year 4 and as he has a summer birthday he is only just 8 years old.
The spellings he comes home with seem very difficult for his age. Pic attached. AIBU?

He struggles with written expression anyway and usually gets zero on all spelling tests despite reading well ahead of his chronological age. We are still trying to learn Year 2 spellings.
I know his spelling ability is unusually poor but that aside I think these words are hard for an only just 8 year old to be expected to spell...

[pinksquash13]

This is lifted from the yr5/6 National Curriculum. 'Some words just have to be learnt'

[pinksquash13]

The English language is so tricky to learn to spell and I am hesitant in ruling out certain strategies over others as what works for one child, doesn't work for another.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

That’s a selective quote though. If you’ve read all of the paper that’s based on you’ll know that only 4% of words in English are completely irregular.

I’d only encourage use of LCCWC if it’s adapted. What children need to be doing when they come access a new word is to break it into syllables, identify any ‘tricky’ sound/spelling correspondences and then writing the word saying each sound as they write it. I’d be hesitant to encourage using it to spell letter by letter under any circumstances. It essentially bypasses the process you want children to be doing automatically.

[pinksquash13]

Yes I agree with what you're saying and I wouldn't encourage letter by letter. But ultimately when they get to that 'tricky bit' in many words, they often need to just know it! That's the point I'm making.

[nevernotstruggling]

Dd1 is year 5. We definitely had that lost in year 4. This one list for all the kids thing is bollocks though. Dd1 told me this morning that some kids in her class are getting much easier spelling lists because they can't manage what she gets. This is an academy primary school in Plymouth so national curriculum etc

[Meltedicicle]

DD is year 4. That list looks like some she had last year. She is in the top group and normally gets 15 spellings. I think the next group get 10 of these and then I think there’s a lower group with different ones altogether. DD can learn them and do well in the tests but doesn’t retain them!

[Shopkinsdoll]

My son who’s 8 and p5, would have problems with these words. He gets extra help. My daughter 7 and p3 would get these no bother. Kids are all different

[gamerwidow]

This looks like the bottom group list of spellings for Year 4 because it's very similar to what DD was doing in Year 4 and she also is a very poor speller.
However DD always got spellings as a themed list each week to make it a bit easier to learn e.g. all the words would begin with the same two or three letters or have the same ending.
It's more challenging for the DC to learn such a disparate group of words.

[gamerwidow]

ps spellings are the bane of my existence DD has been assessed for dsylexia and they found she has trouble splitting words into phonetic blocks.

[Coulddowithanap]

They look normal for that age group. Just wait for year 5 and 6 spellings.

My children can spell better than me

[pinksquash13]

Btw the National Curriculum lump year 3 and 4 spellings together (and then year 5 and 6 spellings together) so schools may split them differently for a range of reasons or depending on what scheme they follow. For example we teach the mis- un- prefixes in year 3.

[k1233]

@k1233 did you know that only approximately 50 percent of all English words can be spelled accurately by sound–symbol correspondence patterns alone, and another 36 percent can be spelled accurately except for one speech sound (usually a vowel).

@Pinksquash13 so basically you're saying 86% can be spelled mostly by sound? Then add a few rules on eg ph is f and you're covering a fair whack of spelling with phonics aren't you?

I know you're trying to disprove my point, but your stats seem to support it. To me at least.

I think it's a very valid option for OP to try. I know my sister worked with illiterate adults and once she started using phonics many said it made much more sense. I still remember learning "ow" in grade one as the W is pointy and it hurts when you sit on it ie OW!

[k1233]

Another grade one lesson I haven't forgotten - two vowels walking hand in hand, the first one says his name, the second one says nothing.

Eg Neat - ea two vowels together make the sound E
Boat - oa =O

An e at the end makes a vowel say it's name.

[howabout]

I accept that phonics can be used to decipher the majority of words. However it is not the case that it can be used to predict how a word should be spelled. eg ait and ate are both phonetically correct. My current MN SpaG pet hate is loose and lose - phonetically they are the same but they mean completely different things and are pronounced differently.

[spaniorita]

Just tested my 8 yo year 4 ds on these and he got 13 out of 15 correct first time and he's about average in literacy so I'd say these are realistic for his age/year group.

[EugenesAxe]

Damn I voted incorrectly; I also think YABU. If your groups are streamed could you ask for him to go to the easiest group? It’s annoying your DS seems to have a block on spellings but honestly they aren’t wildly difficult. The top spelling group in Y4 last year had words like ‘chronological’ and ‘anaesthetic’.

If he’s a strong reader I expect sooner or later something will click for him.

[DownstairsMixUp]

Eldest ds is year 5 and sorry that seems totally normal. He doesn't struggle.

[DontFundHate]

Totally normal y4 spellings but they shouldn't be asking him to do them if he's not able to, that's very lazy and ineffective teaching. I'd be asking them again to help you and going higher up if they dont

[howyoulikemenow]

My daughter just started yr 3. She had accident, accidentally, appear, actually, actually, address

And one other I cant remember. Shes also a summerborn & I was a bit surprised, but its the way things are now.

[Feenie]

It really isn't. Some schools actually bother to teach spelling instead of sending home the first few words from an alphabetically ordered list.

linguisticphonics.wordpress.com/2019/06/06/national-curriculum-years-3-and-4-spelling-list-arranged-by-sound/

[stucknoue]

They seem normal to me. My youngest dd is dyslexic so we had great fun attempting to learn spellings! But we still tried

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

TBF, Feenie the government completely fucked up the spelling appendix in the NC. Having a set of spelling patterns to be covered for each year group and then lists of the 100 most commonly misspelled words operating independently from that makes no sense.

Which is why you end up with ‘fruit’ and ‘bruise’ in different lists and groups of words in the year 3/4 list when that spelling pattern is covered in Year 5 or vice versa.

[INeedToGetHealthy]

These are my DS's spellings for year 4 and even he said they are easy. Baring in mind that I'm dyslexic, I have an adult DS who has severe disabilities. The medication that we have had over the years takes some getting used to, especially when you have to spell it out for respite/school/college. The worst one is Glycopyrronium Bromide.