To think school spelling lists are unrealistic?

[ACupOfTeaSolvesEverything]

DS has just started Year 4 and as he has a summer birthday he is only just 8 years old.
The spellings he comes home with seem very difficult for his age. Pic attached. AIBU?

He struggles with written expression anyway and usually gets zero on all spelling tests despite reading well ahead of his chronological age. We are still trying to learn Year 2 spellings.
I know his spelling ability is unusually poor but that aside I think these words are hard for an only just 8 year old to be expected to spell...

[pinksquash13]

@k1233 did you know that only approximately 50 percent of all English words can be spelled accurately by sound–symbol correspondence patterns alone, and another 36 percent can be spelled accurately except for one speech sound (usually a vowel).

English is one of the hardest languages to learn to spell, certainly in Europe. I feel for kids. Just as we teach them a rule or pattern, we then produce 10 exceptions.

[pinksquash13]

Also agree squeebles and spelling frame are excellent resources. The 'look, say, cover, write, check' method is a good evidence backed way of learning to spell too.

[INeedAFlerken]

Those are standard year 4 words.

Ask for spelling support for your child.

Also consider asking for assessment for dyslexia and related issues (if English is his first language).

[SunshineAngel]

Our local primary school will start with spellings in Reception, and there will be a little test (not whole class - one to one) twice a week. Once they have done each word right twice in a row, it's replaced by another word, and this carries on through the school, with the words getting harder. So, everything is appropriate for the child. Words will also be added that they struggle with in their work. For example, I always remember "disappointing" being on my Y6 list for months, as I always forgot whether it had 1 or 2 ps! They've kept this method for years, as far as I'm aware, and I think it works well. Obviously, the majority of the words are only on the test for a week, as they practice them at home and therefore get them right, but any troublesome ones stay until they are no longer troublesome.

[TriDreigiau]

Spelling list have done nothing but discourage my children.

Apple and pears is good - very good in later books with prefixes and suffixes also mean punctuation and basic grammar get covered and reinforced.

We also finding Violet Brands books helpful though they are considered bit old fashioned I think. Red hot roots and anything that looks at the greek latin bits of words helps as well.

We're also using Touch-type Read and Spell (TTRS) because quite frankly it's something else that might help and at least they get typing practise - nessy might also be worth a look if you do want extra computer based practise.

We've had very mixed spelling list - very random - over the years. I've not found schools great at dealing with poor spelling.

having an avid reader above his level but with an inability to spell is quite unusual

That was true of myself and all our kids many wider family members - so I'm not sure it is that unusal.

[Feenie]

k1233 did you know that only approximately 50 percent of all English words can be spelled accurately by sound–symbol correspondence patterns alone, and another 36 percent can be spelled accurately except for one speech sound (usually a vowel)

Absolute rubbish. There are only around 150 different graphemes (aside from some extremely rare ones). The national curriculum states that spelling should be taught through a combination of sound correspondence and etymology right up to Y6, which is best practice according to research. Unfortunately, many schools think that a) phonics stops at Y2 and b) the national curriculum is optional rather than statutory.

[Feenie]

The 'look, say, cover, write, check' method is a good evidence backed way of learning to spell too

Actually, it really isn't. It's a method used to memorise whole words, which isn't the recommended method of teaching spelling. It isn't teaching at all.

www.dyslexics.org.uk/spelling.htm

[SunniDay]

Hi OP,
It sounds tough on your son to be such a good reader but find spelling so hard.
I wonder if you can help him find memory aids for some words like I've never forgotten when someone taught me "Rhythm Helps Your Two Hips Move" = how to spell Rhythm. You might be able to find some ideas for more of these on the internet or make some of your own.

[mumsiedarlingrevolta]

having an avid reader above his level but with an inability to spell is quite unusual

^^ this was exactly my DS- I can remember him coming out and saying
"why do they ask us how to spell the words-why don't they ask who knows the most words?"

This was also one of the red flags that led to his dyslexia diagnosis.

He is now thriving at a RG Uni so there is light at the end of the tunnel...

[TriDreigiau]

I've found mnemonics good for odd words that are causing issues - or odd things like juice has ice in - or ghost has a host but if problems are more widespread I think you have to look at letter combinations and sounds and word families and splitting words into morphemes.

[PeoplesPoet]

I've just had a look at my DS7 Y3 ones and some of his are tougher I think!

Experience
Possession
Position
Occasionally
Accidentally
Business

[Fresta]

The words are fine for y4 but I don't think spelling tests work. Learn spelling rules, yes, learn exceptions to the rule, yes, but learning a set list of words is pointless- they memorise for the test but once the test is over kids delete it from their brains and don't transfer to written work. Avid readers are usually better spellers. Kids who see patterns are usually better spellers and those with visual learning styles are too.

[LookingForward2020]

You have low expectations.

[Quair]

Ds1 got "accountability" as a spelling word in year 3. Memorising was not a problem but putting it in a sentence definitely was.

OP, you're wrong that those words are too hard for most year 4s, but you are completely right that the work should be differentiated appropriately for your son.

[Hitthesnooze]

The words are appropriate for the age group. The method of teaching doesn't look great as there is a mix of rules in there.
The refusal to differentiate is pure laziness.
No child will learn well or improve if they are continually being set up to fail with words beyond their ability and things like this are exactly why children get to the teenage years with poor literacy skills. There is only so many times you get 0 in the test before you stop bothering learning them, then stop bothering trying in the lesson, then stop bothering listening at all.

If the teacher won't differentiate (and they should, the child should be learning things appropriate to their ability) then talk to someone higher up the food chain. Consider asking about them looking into possible dyslexia or other issues.

Sadly some teachers can be lazy and sometimes you need to be that parent. I had to be that parent when my child was in primary school and got into trouble for handing in homework with mistakes in it. The teacher declared at parents night that I should 'make sure it is all done correctly'. I pointed out that I might as well do it myself then as the teacher would gain precisely nothing from 25 sets of perfect homework being handed in each time - no knowledge of what the children had learned and where they still needed to do more work. My job was to make sure the homework was done - the teachers job was to mark it and see what progress had been made.
"I don't have time to do that" they spluttered. I pointed out that I was a secondary school teacher, I had a lot more than 25 sets of homework coming in and if I expected the parents to correct it for me they'd tell me I was having a laugh. I can learn as much from what the children can't answer as what they do try to answer.

So yeah, talk again to the teacher and if they won't differentiate talk to someone higher up. It's in the professional standards that work is set at an appropriate and differentiated level.

This isn't a teacher bashing response - I've been teaching for a long time - but sadly as in all professions some people are just not very good at their job.

[BarbariansMum]

The list is standard but YANBU to think they should differentiate for him. I think you should insist.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Just as we teach them a rule or pattern, we then produce 10 exceptions.

That’s ideally why we don’t teach rules. You teach sounds and spellings. Most children should be familiar with the 150 most common spellings of the sounds in English by the end of year So they should be able to apply them to longer words in ks2.

Feenie, is it just that some schools seem to think phonics stops at year 2 or is there also a problem with teaching phonics for spelling right from reception. Arguably the skills you need to learn to spell longer words start in reception.

[Feenie]

Agreed, rafa, some schools don't have the skills and/or knowledge to teach encoding right from the start alongside decoding.

[Spacecudet]

I would speak to his teacher again. There is no point him learning Year 4 words if he isn't confident spelling words from previous years. They should put something in place to help him succeed. Getting zero every week will not help his confidence or improve his spelling. If you get no luck, ask to speak to the Sendco or a senior leader in the school. He still needs to be exposed to his current years spellings, but needs support to master the words from previous years. Good luck

[NarwhalsNarwhals]

Seems fine to me, don't forget that is a list to learn, there wouldn't be any point sending home a list of words they already know how to spell.

[StockTakeFucks]

How long is a piece of string?

It doesn't matter how hard the words are for other kids (DD in y3 already can spell half of them,and some she got as her spellings in her first week back). That's irrelevant really if your kid struggles with them. That's what matters, and the teacher should really differentiate for him, ideally lower level words that he can reasonably practice and learn or at least a reduced number so 6 spellings instead of 15 for example.

If he really can't do it,then they are pointless work for you,him and the teacher and while he doesn't mind,this sort of practice can be very demoralising for children who struggle despite trying really hard.

[MouthyHarpy]

Some of those are Tricky and some of the undergrads I teach have difficulties with them.

Which is all the more reason to set them as spellings to be learnt early.

Your DS is behind, but that doesn’t mean that the lust is unreasonable. Quite the contrary - it helps his teacher and you identify where he has difficulties and where he needs to do some focused learning.

One of the ways we learn is by making mistakes. People seem to forget that.

[PuffHuffle5]

I think that’s pretty standard - they’ve been looking at prefixes which are attached to simple to spell words and then a few ‘tricky’ words off the Y3/4 spelling list in the national curriculum.

[pikapikachu]

It is unfair that everyone is expected to learn all the words at your school.

My son struggles with spelling and his school has the top group learning all of the words, middle group learning 2/3 and bottom group learning 1/3. The words would be in order of difficulty so the bottom group words would be the easier ones,

[pinksquash13]

@Feenie @RafaIsTheKingOfClay

I completely agree that phonics are very important when learning to spell and of course children should learn sounds and I also agree that it should be applied and revised in ks2. However, let's not pretend phonics solves all spelling issues...

'Approximately 50 percent of all English words can be spelled accurately by sound–symbol correspondence patterns alone, and another 36 percent can be spelled accurately except for one speech sound (usually a vowel)'

This is absolutely true! Proving that whole word strategies are sometimes needed. Plus who hasn't come across a child where phonics just doesn't click. They fail the stupid yr1 test three years in a row. They are not phonetical learners and other strategies need to be put in place for them.

I wouldn't use 'look cover write check' in a spelling lesson where I'm teaching spelling but I do recommend it for home learning to practise the spelling.