My ex got my 15yo to drive him home drunk, WWYD?

[AnneTwackie]

Always had problems with my ex but there’s a contact order in place allowing overnight contact and, as he’s now 15, he is entitled to his own say. If I could, I would stop contact, but that isn’t a possibility.
I have the pin for my son’s phone and have just found out he drove his dad home on Saturday night at 2am because his dad was drunk. They were at a sports club event.
If I tell my son, his father or any of the family my son will know I look at his messages but it’s my one way of knowing what’s happening. What can I do? Would the police take action?

At least it might make him realise the risk he has taken and not do it to his son again.

I wouldn't stake any money - or anyones life - on that ....

You want:

1. a family lawyer who you can talk to about your ex's behaviour towards your son and what steps they advise taking, if any.

1. a criminal lawyer you can discuss the driving with - a criminal record is not going to assist your son. I wouldn't report this to the police without having sought advice from a criminal lawyer.

1. to tell your son's school what's going on with your ex. They might consider the father poses a safeguarding risk to him. If things are really bad, social services involvement isn't a bad thing.

1. to think about how to help your son realise his father's behaviour is wrong (even if he wants to stay in contact with him) - maybe talk about domestic violence and good ways of treating partners and explain this applies to all family members. Maybe look at some of the checklists for abusive relationships.

1. maybe also think about how to help your son to manage the situation practically - would self defence classes help? would "safety planning" of the sort people in abusive relationships are encouraged to do help - if his father is being difficult he could x, y or z. does he know about the "Ask for Angela" thing in pubs? would he get anything useful out of driving lessons on private land? [not condoning him driving underage on public roads, but lessons might help him recognising how dangerous driving is]

Step away, step away

He’s 15 years old and you’re monitoring his phone

Regrettably you cannot stop a 15 year old from maintaining a relationship with his father

Don’t run the risk of your son having a criminal conviction for driving without a licence and without insurance)and being near on) uninsurable). Don’t try to pass parenting on to the police.

And avoid making up scary lies that backfire as they may be demonstrably untrue and all you do is damage your relationship with your son and drive him further to his father

Again, and as so many have said, solicitor. Nobody here can advise.

I would also point out that the text exchanges are evidence. They're how the OP knows. They're admissions by both father and son. So not sure why people keep insisting there's no evidence, and it could just be denied.

If you contact the police your son will end up in trouble not necessarily your ex

Your son will get done for driving whilst disqualified by reason of age

No licence

No insurance

Your son will suffer not your ex !

The police officer also said they probably wouldn't have enough evidence to charge the dad but they would be able to caution him

To caution someone the evidence of proof need to be the same as if you were charging someone !

Who is the police officer that said this FFS !

Because the 'evidence' that the OP has mentioned is in the form of text messages. Firstly it would depend if the messages were concrete evidence that an offence had occurred. In my experience text messages are useful tool to corroborate other existing evidence and this would rely on an admission of the offence my either the father or the son. (Or an independent witness) I very much doubt the messages themselves would not meet the CPS threshold .

However as I have already said this would be looked at from a safeguarding point of view wrt the son. and on my team would be referrred to Child Protection Team. Not a criminal one.

It looks like a case of coercive control by the father - however IF he were to be prosecuted it would not be under the new coercive control laws because the abuse is perpetrated by someone over 16 upon someone under 16. and doesn't apply . This is because the criminal law, in particular the child cruelty/neglect offence in section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 as amended by section 66 of the 2015 Act, already covers such behaviour.

Very much doubt the messages would meet the CPS threshold.

CarsonforPM There seems to have been a reading comprehension fail from a poster. I can assure you at know point did I say the father would get a caution ! As there is insufficient evidence for anything of that type on the information given..

What I did say is that IF the child had acted on his own. Taken and driven a car without permission, insurance and a licence he could expect at least a caution or formal charges depending on circumstances/number of previous offences.. however as the child acted under the influence/request of the father - this is a safeguarding matter for the child.

@ProfessorSlocombe, I mentioned duress because that is the only comparable legal defence. Coercion is not a defence to a criminal charge in English law.

@Thehouseintheforest

Your posts make so much sense. Thank you.

In my opinion you know what you are talking about. Other posters need to take note .

41Thehouseintheforest do you agree other police officers might approach it differently?

e.g. if the son admits it he could end up being charged?

Depending on what OP discloses to the solicitor, the solicitor may have to report it. Safeguarding of minors trumps confidentiality.
So OP should only speak to a solicitor if she is prepared for it to be passed to SS and/or the police. Which ultimately brings us back to the same points: she has no proof; her DS could end up with a criminal record; she has even less influence and impact on her DS going forwards; she has pushed her DS closer to his DF.

@AnneTwackie Any update OP?

I reported it using CrimeStoppers as
I don’t believe my son will get charged, as some posters (and other people in law enforcement I have spoken to) said there is no evidence, but both he and his father need to be warned.
I’ve also been in touch with school to talk about my son having more regular support over generic problems with his dad.
The posters who said that either of those options is handing parenting over to someone else rather than talking to him don’t really understand my situation. We do talk, I have to under react to a lot of stuff he tells me about his dad to keep those channels open, if I start being heavy handed he might start hiding stuff.
Also the posters who said I shouldn’t be looking, I know I’m a good parent and it does pain me to check his phone as I don’t do it with my other child but I do it for his safety not to invade his privacy. He’s 15 and I’ll keep him safe in whatever way I can. Lucky you if you don’t have to resort to this.

Not quite sure what to say to the posters who think getting him early driving lessons is the way to go!

The posters who said that either of those options is handing parenting over to someone else rather than talking to him don’t really understand my situation

Actually a third party can’t make all the difference. Most adults have the same options on things that matter. Drink drugs underage sex stealing lying etc. They don’t often believe their parents.

Good luck I hope you find a way forward

@AnneTwackie Fully agree OP! I'd do exactly the same as you. From the phone checking to the way you handle things - including this situation.

Someone recently said to me that a parent who questions their own parenting is the best parent anyone ever can be.

You've questioned how to deal with things, thought about it and made a decision to do what you believe is the right thing. What more can you do?

Thanks @prohibitedrodent that’s exactly what I needed to hear!

I think it is lucky (if that's the right word) that no accident occurred. Imagine if someone had been hit and died... the consequences for all concerned do not bear thinking about... son in prison (or a young person's equivalent), the other person's family destroyed beyond belief, ex husband probably in prison too for supporting and encouraging the crime... the list is probably endless in terms of the fallout.

Personally I'm amazed your son could even drive the car - even automatics take a bit of getting used to.