AIBU to complain about the state of A and E last night?

[waterjungle]

I arrived at 9pm with my 1 year old. He had croup that started the previous night. We had two Drs appointments that day where they had said it was just a chest infection and not to be worried. Later in the evening he began to have problems breathing and we couldn’t get his temperature down so decided it was the sensible option.

A and E was heaving. Went to reception, they said wait to be triaged, 3 hours later my we were still waiting. There were so many people with what looked like minor ailments, cuts etc. One family with their 6/7 yr old had an additional 5 family members with them. They had set up a picnic and were feeding him trifle. There was nowhere to sit we got a space in the corner on the floor.

There was a paediatric Dr dealing with a mental health case in the children’s waiting room. That person had been turned away from the emergency psychiatric unit and the police.

The Dr came out and said there would be a 6/7 hour wait and they were overwhelmed. At this 50% of people got up and walked out including picnic family who left all their empty sandwich / crisp/ trifle detritus behind .

Dr caught sight of my son, noticed how unwell he was and rushed him through to resus. His oxygen levels were chronically low. He was in danger and at this point hadn’t even been triaged.

Various doctors came in and apologised saying we had been badly let down and hadn't got the care we should have. They are making a complaint, they told us it was only a matter of time before they missed something and somebody died. They said they were scared and wanted us to make a complaint too so it is officially flagged.

My heart goes out to them. They must be frightened to go into work, I have never seen an emergency room in such a state before. There is obviously chronic understaffing and underfunding but what were those people who walked out doing there? If they had a real emergency surely they would have stayed?

My son was admitted and is going to be fine but it could have been different. It may be different for someone else’s son or daughter. Please don’t go to A and E unless it is really nessacaery. AIBU to think I shouldn’t even have to say that?!

Also how do we go ahead making a complaint or who do we complain to without blaming the doctors or staff who are so obviously doing their best?

Sigh. I said I'd go to the walk in centre not A&E as its more appriorate and I've broken 3 bones in my life one of which did require very complex surgery. All were initially walk in centre treated.
Obviously many places don't have walk in or minor injury centres which causes issues or there shut on weekends.
There should be more minor injury units so that issues can be streamlined for a & e staff who are overworked and can lead to people in immediate need being overlooked.
So keep the bee in your bonett

I would complain. Complaints and tragedies are the only thing that gets the attention of people with the power to change things in hospitals.

It's not difficult to work out the email address for the chief executive of a hospital trust. Just find out their name from the website and base the email on the format used for other email addresses. I have done this in the past and received what I felt was an appropriate response/action.

A walk in centre doesn't have the necessary resources for many things, including broken bones.
We are overwhelmed with people mainly due to 111 sending people for the most minor complaints. We said it was a bad idea that would lead to a surge in patients, and we were correct.
A few weeks ago I had to book a woman in who came with her six year old son, because 111 advised her to. The problem? Her six year old sons great toe nail was hanging off!!!

Was in a&e on Monday night myself...noticed similar to you people coming in and waiting to be triaged for an hour or more and then they must have been asking how long the wait time was when they were triaged and then leaving straight after they were being told it was 8 hours. We were there from the early afternoon and didn't get seen by a doctor until midnight even in the urgent category but I was willing to sit and wait I needed help so I sat and I eventually got it the doctor was very apologetic as well about the wait but it's not their fault at the end of the day ! People also waste time in constantly going up to the docs/nurses station to complain about how long they have been waiting! Just sit there and be thankful you aren't one of the emergency cases that they are trying to keep alive !
I got sorted and got all urgent tests done a few hours later spent a full 24 hours in the hospital in the a&e unit but they were keeping pain under control while I was waiting and they got to the bottom of the problem and it was all free !
I do feel though that complaints do need to go in so senior Management can see what a mess the place is in and how it is affecting both staff and patients ! But there is still a massive misuse of a&e from what I seen by people who could get help elsewhere !

@StealingYourWiFi , I went to a walk-in centre this week and was confronted by a large sign saying 'The waiting time is currently 2 hours'. This should obviously be standard practice in any clinic that can't offer appointments. Why are your patients having to wait to be triaged before they find this out?

This is obviously awful. Can I just ask what you said when you booked in at reception? I've been to A&E with my asthmatic son many times and as no matter how busy he is, he has always been triaged within a maximum of 5 minutes as I say (truthfully) he is having breathing difficulties.

Thanks everyone - poorly boy is home now and is more back to himself.
We will be complaining to our MP and the hospital CCG as suggested.
Just to clarify, we were sat in in the separate Children's A and E, the main reception was even worse!
There was one Dr for everyone, adults and kids alike. As I said he was dealing with a mental health patient at one point in the children's waiting room.
I cannot praise the staff enough, the last thing I would want is to get them into more trouble. As I said, they wanted us to complain alongside their complaint as they said the situation was dangerous.

Why are your patients having to wait to be triaged before they find this out?

at my local a&e you were triaged into urgent care/resus/minor injuries - depending on what the issue is.
waiting times vary.

You should absolutely complain. If enough people complain, things might change.

Last time I was in a&e with dd, I think we were the only two people in the waiting room speaking English. I do wonder if the reason so many present at a&e is because they don't actually know that it isn't the appropriate way to get their minor ailment looked at.

I also wanted to make the point that different areas have different systems. There's no such thing as minor injuries in my (English) city, so a&e is absolutely the appropriate place for broken bones because there's no alternative.

The NHS is being deliberately run down by the Tory party so they can sell it off. They already let Branson buy up medical centres and others.

Things will not get better unless people really tell their MP what is happening and that it is unacceptable.
They ahve money for managers but not for Doctors etc.

I agree with red You can't give someone a waiting time before triage, because of severity

Someone could come in with something urgent urgent and be seen straight away, someone comes in with something slightly less urgent and it will be hours, something minor and it could be weeks!

To give you a reason why you might walk out, I fell over and knocked my head (fell up stairs) I wasn't knocked unconscious I don't think but felt really weird afterwards, and sick etc. I didn't initially go to a&E with as I thought it was mild. Went to sleep and woke up and was sick, after 3 days I was still vommiting. I know this is concerning, but I wouldn't have said A&E concerning. I rang GP who literally refused to even speak to me because it was a head injury. They can't even advise me on whether this sounds mild and manage at home or whether I should do to A&e. Nothing. Its just "head injury, A&es problem". No minor injuries anywhere (signs in A&E saying it's been recently 'merged with A&E -so closed, great) no walk in centre.

So I went, was seen and CTed. All fine. Felt like I was wasting time, but at the same time I needed to be seen as I had concussion. I felt proper awful as well, sitting in that stuffy waiting room was awful, and I'm emetephobic and there were people being sick everywhere, I felt sick it was horrible.

Probably if someone said it was an 8 hr wait to be seen I would have gone home, I felt so weird and I didn't think I needed urgent care, whilst at the same time the only way to access the care I needed was through A&E.

@Footle patients could ask reception how long the wait is but they didn’t always. We triaged appropriately. Things like chest pain, acute abdo/head pain, bleeding, allergic reactions with airway compromise etc were called through within minutes.

@Kaykay06 if you have no peadiatric A&E then that probably is better. But if there is a dedicated peadiatric A&E everyone should go there. Even GP referrals. They are then sent up to CAU.

Spanglyprincess1 going to a minor injuries unit for suspected broken bones is only appropriate if they can diagnose and treat them correctly.

I had an accident and was taken to the local minor injuries unit where a sprained ankle was diagnosed. After 6 weeks and numerous visits to the GP and Physiotherapy I was finally referred to an Orthopedic Consultant who informed me that the sprained ankle was a misdiagnosis and the injury I suffered was in fact a Lisfranc Injury (Midfoot fractures and complete ligament damage) I had to have a CT scan to determine the exact damage caused by 1) the accident 2) the damage caused by walking on the injured foot for 6 weeks.

I ended up needing 2 lots of surgery involving removal of damaged ligaments, bone grafts, 2 plates inserted into the 1st and 2nd Tarsometatarsal joints and a bolt through the TMT joint complex. Thank god the surgeries were to a degree successful because if it wasn't the only other option was amputation. I am currently about £10,000 pounds out of pocket due to time off work and essential expenses.

I face more surgery in the future, perhaps sooner rather than later, the possibility of partial amputation is still there. All of this could have been avoided.

So no, it is not necessarily appropriate to go to a minor injuries unit with suspected broken bones, I for one will never go to the miu again if there is the merest hint of a broken bone and I know of other people who won't either after their family members experiences.

@waterjungle

There seems to be a lot of croup about at the moment and a lot of young children are ill with it.

I am glad you son is ok now.

Definitely complain! You can’t complain about the doctors, you’re complaining FOR THEM!!!

@waterjungle

Complaining won't change the state of the NHS I'm afraid it will only make managers bear down on the medical staff to try to meet quotas. I know I was married to a hospital manager and he dealth with patient complaints. You will probably get a nice letter apologising for this and things will go on exactly the same until Boris injects more funding in the NHS.

dealt with patient complaints

Good question OP
Pleased he was treated

I struggle to understand as yesterday received amazing treatment via the NHS

Why was this place so good (for none life threatening ) and yours so poor

I would email the department and ask where it would serve them best to complain but go high ( local MP and head of the trust )?

How many people here remember the NHS for a long time? I am 54 and in the 80s I remember regular 7-8 he waits at A&E. It was the norm. The news was full of reports of the NHS being in crisis. . Things improved a lot in the 90s and them went downhill again.
It is not the fault of people in A&E, it is a chronic lack of funding over many Tory years which has been made worse than critical with the mass exodus of EU nurses and doctors over a very short period.

Complain to pals by all means but I should also write to to your MP , particularly if they are Tory complaining strongly about the three year debacle on Brexit' which has resulted in many many other areas of policy including the NHS being ignored .

The last time I was in A&E I stood for 45 minutes in a queue just for the reception, never mind triage or anything else. The line went all the way round the waiting room. At that point my husband arrived and I took my younger child home, and it was still another 15 minutes until he got to the reception. My son had a broken arm so it wasn't life-threatening or anything, but I couldn't help but wonder what would happen if you had come in with a baby with breathing difficulties or something else similarly serious. Or if you were on your own - how could you stand in a line for an hour if you had chest pains or appendicitis or were dripping blood from your head or whatever and had no one with you to queue for you while you sat?

Once they got through to the children's A&E waiting room my son was triaged fairly quickly, within half an hour or so, and he was out about four hours after arriving, so that was to be expected, but I couldn't believe the wait just to check in. The previous time he had broken a bone it was a Saturday afternoon and we were in, seen, treated and out well under two hours which seemed incredible!

How many people here remember the NHS for a long time? I am 54 and in the 80s I remember regular 7-8 he waits at A&E. It was the norm. The news was full of reports of the NHS being in crisis. . Things improved a lot in the 90s and them went downhill again.

It is not the fault of people in A&E, it is a chronic lack of funding over many Tory years which has been made worse than critical with the mass exodus of EU nurses and doctors over a very short period.

Hear hear! I have been a regular attendee at A&E since the early 80s as I have asthma (only it was called Casualty in those days). You have it spot on. I'm 50.

47 here, I remember how it was in 80's/90's. Not only as a patient but I trained as a nurse in early 90's too and it was horrendous!

I am NO fan of new labour on many things (anyone is very welcome to search me to see this is true) in my opinion they were very much Tory lite BUT what they did do sort of right was tackle the Nhs crisis then.

I'm no longer nursing, but I have friends I trained with who still are and are by now quite senior and obviously very experienced and I've seen on here from those still working at the sharp end similar comments.

That they too remember how bad it was then...but it's even worse now!

Which I find really appalling but doesn't actually surprise me as THESE tories ARE worse than thatcher and certainly major.

Also NO fan of thatcher AT ALL - but whatever else you can say about her ideologies and opinions she was at least competent!

This shower of shite we've had for last nearly what 10 years? Completely callous AND utterly fucking useless!!

I do believe (as I often post ) in chomskys comment on conning people into accepting privatisation, but these numpties I don't even trust will have private companies ready to provide healthcare when it all goes completely to shit! Even at a price!

And people are already dying and suffering far more than they should be because they're so clueless!

WHY people continue to vote them in I REALLY don't understand!

Yes - Complain to PALS.
I work in the NHS and ive worked in A&E. It is used and abused for everything, in fact there's a joke it should be Anything and Everything not accident and emergency. I don't understand why whole families turn up for something minor? its like a day out.
I agree that coming in by ambulance doesn't give you priority, you will quickly get triaged then sent in the waiting room with everyone else if not urgent . Unfortunately, ambulances are treated like taxi's also
I'm sorry your child was so poorly, hope he is recovered now

@bumblingbovine49

I grew up with a mother who worked in the NHS and I spent a lot of time around the hospital she worked in as a child in the 80’s

It was a decrepit dangerous building and many clinics were held in mangy old portacabins, I also remember walking down the corridors and if it rained you would get wet. Surgical patients were wheeled across a car park to theatre and would also get wet! I have recollection of attending A&E when I was about 12 in the 90’s after an accident with my foot, and I was there for almost a whole day.