AIBU to complain about the state of A and E last night?

[waterjungle]

I arrived at 9pm with my 1 year old. He had croup that started the previous night. We had two Drs appointments that day where they had said it was just a chest infection and not to be worried. Later in the evening he began to have problems breathing and we couldn’t get his temperature down so decided it was the sensible option.

A and E was heaving. Went to reception, they said wait to be triaged, 3 hours later my we were still waiting. There were so many people with what looked like minor ailments, cuts etc. One family with their 6/7 yr old had an additional 5 family members with them. They had set up a picnic and were feeding him trifle. There was nowhere to sit we got a space in the corner on the floor.

There was a paediatric Dr dealing with a mental health case in the children’s waiting room. That person had been turned away from the emergency psychiatric unit and the police.

The Dr came out and said there would be a 6/7 hour wait and they were overwhelmed. At this 50% of people got up and walked out including picnic family who left all their empty sandwich / crisp/ trifle detritus behind .

Dr caught sight of my son, noticed how unwell he was and rushed him through to resus. His oxygen levels were chronically low. He was in danger and at this point hadn’t even been triaged.

Various doctors came in and apologised saying we had been badly let down and hadn't got the care we should have. They are making a complaint, they told us it was only a matter of time before they missed something and somebody died. They said they were scared and wanted us to make a complaint too so it is officially flagged.

My heart goes out to them. They must be frightened to go into work, I have never seen an emergency room in such a state before. There is obviously chronic understaffing and underfunding but what were those people who walked out doing there? If they had a real emergency surely they would have stayed?

My son was admitted and is going to be fine but it could have been different. It may be different for someone else’s son or daughter. Please don’t go to A and E unless it is really nessacaery. AIBU to think I shouldn’t even have to say that?!

Also how do we go ahead making a complaint or who do we complain to without blaming the doctors or staff who are so obviously doing their best?

Id never go to A&E with a broken bone unless it was a hip or back issue. As what's the point? Minor injuries the next morning is fine. Obviously over the weekend it causes its own issues.
A minor fee I'd gladly pay eg 30 quid as it might stop abuse but equally might put off the vulnerable that need help.
Yeah more awareness is key but there are big signs up now in all GPS and other places listing injuries and where to go.
Problem is the non sensible people will continue not to listen to the detriment of those in need.

Op again I'm really glad your child is okay and a big thank you to all the NHS staff doing a fab job in hard circus xx

The NHS is underfunded for the level of demand and need. This is true across primary and secondary care. So those GPs turning patients away are doing so because they genuinely have no resources left to see more patients. A+E waits are unacceptably long because they don’t have enough resources to make them shorter.
111 can help you assess where you need to be seen. Please only phone 999 for true emergencies - ambulance response times can be very long because they are also under resourced so don’t use unless you need to.
Please also avoid judging and blaming other patients. Drug addicts have a really high level of illness and premature death - they are more at risk than most. And generally they don’t have a happy story - people don’t become drug addicts for happy reasons, many have suffered horrific abuse and are very stigmatised already. Healthy looking children and adults may be very sick. My daughter looked extremely healthy - probably one of the healthiest kids on the ward, playing and chatting happily - whilst waiting on the paediatric ward for the scan which confirmed her cancer diagnosis. You simply do not know what is going on for others so should not judge. Someone may go to A+E for something I’d consider minor and deal with - often it’s because they aren’t fortunate enough to have as many resources as others.
I think this is a political issue - so yes, complain, write to your MP - but make sure it’s about the real issue.

Bobbiepin its dreadful you were left to wait with suspected meningitis. I was admitted with it in 2016. DP took me - because they said it would be a 20-30 minute wait for an ambulance - parked right outside A&E near to but not blocking ambulances and practically carried me in. I bypassed triage, waited for 10 minutes or less and was on a drip and strong pain killers within 30 minutes of arrival. I did have quite a dramatic rash to go with the seizure, high temp, aching neck, headache and light aversion though... I didn't have meningitis, it was some kind of viral infection and they never worked out quite what.

I agree with the OP people are abusing A&E. I had to take DS to childrens hospital a few years and there were children running about, shouting, climbing on chairs. I also saw picnics and large family groups together. Thankfully they've now set up a minor injuries unti on site and divert a lot of people there

Yes, one of but not the only reason I finally left.

What is described seems very odd though. We would have the triage nurse making rounds of the waiting room at intervals so they can pick up if someone is in real trouble, has deteriorated etc. Do you know how much paperwork and shit is involved if someone dies in your waiting area!

Id never go to A&E with a broken bone unless it was a hip or back issue. As what's the point? Minor injuries the next morning is fine.

Well the point here is that there’s nowhere else to do. Nearest minor injuries unit is almost an hour away by car (on a good day - good luck driving if you’ve broken a bone, if you even can drive!) and they don’t even have access to an X-ray machine.

Not everywhere has the same facilities. I would love a decent minor injuries unit at either of the two local hospitals (10 min drive and 30 minute drive) - would take huge pressure off A&E. There must be some reason they don’t, not sure what it is. Our local A&E is heaving and in 4 years time it will be closed as they merge it with the one 30 mins away, via roads that are already gridlocked in rush hour. Let’s hope no one in my town has a heart attack or a stroke, or severe blood loss eh? I almost amputated my arm in an accident many years ago and the only reason that I survived in one piece is that I lived so close to the hospital that an ambulance arrived in less than 5 mins and the journey to A&E at 3am took even less than that.

@ClaireElizabethBeauchampFraser I didn't suggest everyone who has cars should drive themselves to hospital did I?! 🙄Obviously if you have a life critical condition such as sepsis you need an ambulance. The clue is in the title "emergency service" Read the post, there's a dear.

Id never go to A&E with a broken bone unless it was a hip or back issue. As what's the point? Minor injuries the next morning is fine.

It might be broken in such a way that can cause very serious health problems without your knowing it until it's too late. It can be, well it has been for me, very painful. It can swell and cause more pain/nerve damage. It may need to be put back in place before too many hours go by and it has to be done surgically.

I've said this on these threads before.

1. Don't judge if someone needs A&E. You don't know. My dd was i need of an emergency op, but was running round laughing and smiling. I would have gone home and come back in the morning too. I knew the op she needed (she had a history) knew that the only way to access it on that day was via A&E. Just to be clear she was unable to swallow anything, even water, so within 24 hours, she would have been badly dehydrated, so she really couldn't wait, but didn't look ill, and if it was late with a 7 hour wait, we would have gone home and gone to bed and come back at 8 am.

1. Last winter there was an extensive interview with an A&E doctor. he said it is not actually true that the issue is people using it who don't need to. Their hospital had a veyr efficient triage with then an nurse practictioner and a GP taking all the minor injuries out of the equation. It helped but not much.

Much more significant was the problem of people, particularly old people presenting with mutiple problems, and needing to be admitted. Then there was no ward space to put them in. So, instead of relatively quick assessment, treatment and discharge, it was lang complex assessment, treatment and needing to admitt but no beds available.

Id never go to A&E with a broken bone unless it was a hip or back issue. As what's the point? Minor injuries the next morning is fine.

well my broken bone needed 3 days in hospital and an op to pin it all back together.
It was agony.
You must have had very minor problems, so minor injuries sounds just fine.
except, that there aren't any in many parts of the country, or, like here, the only minor injuries is 30 minutes drive away, which is fine if you have a car and can drive with your broken bone.

I got a taxi and our minor I juries is 30 min away. Like I said I wouldn't go. But its case by case if minor injuries is shut as its a sat night and your in pain then a call to 111 who will advise where to go is sensible.
I think some injuries appear minor but can be serious so you can't always tell by looking at people in A&E

Excellent point though why are there so few minor I juries units for brakes etc as it would take pressure off A&E? Two of our local ones have closed and our lcola A&E have closed to.
It's a shame for staff as it must increase liklihood of abuse etc if people are scared and waiting for a long time.

Exactly, steppe. I broke my foot and ankle when I missed the last step on a flight of stairs. The pain was staggering. Of course, I needed an xray to see the actual breaks and the ankle had to be pinned, the bones are small in there.

A friend fractured his tib/fib in a fall. He definitely needed A&E because he was a big sweller and needed to have anti-inflamatories injected for a couple of days before he could be operated on, plus of course it was extremely painful and he needed to be splinted so he couldn't damage it further.

There are many bones you can break in your body that are definitely not minor injuries and are not your hips or back.

Going to a&e with a broken back is a misuse of public resources especially when you consider that most towns have a chemist. Selfish selfish selfish. Personally I have only ever been there when my head fell off one time and even then I walked six miles to get to hospital and didn't make a fuss because I'm better than you. Well done to all of OUR HEROES in the NHS. I wrote that sentence to prove once again that I'm an excellent person and not just chatting shit.

GrannySquares of course it’s not an A&E option and I didn’t go but imagine someone taking that advice because they didn’t know any better or just choose to always believe a healthcare person.

I attended A & E and my DH thought I was being a drama queen (maybe so did others in the waiting room). This was following phone triage from gp basically telling me to go away.
I felt very ill though.
As soon as I was triaged I was taken straight to resus and told they didn't know whether or not I would die. Please don't judge people.
Incidentally, when I was taken out of resus, my bed was taken by a man who had broken his ankle and presumably had associated issues which were very serious.

The damage I could have done to my foot and ankle if I'd just left it till morning, not to mention the pain would have made it impossible to sleep. Plenty of breaks are not stable and you can't tell that without an xray.

God, Fuma, you are so ridiculous! You could have just stuck your head back on with some gaffa tape, but since your neck is part of your back and that needed to be broken to justify A&E I'll let you off just this once, but next time, just sleep with it off and take a taxi to minors.

@Fuma
I hate patients like you clogging up the place and wasting valuable time and resources when you could just have gone to Staples for a stapler and staples your own head back on. It's people like you turning up at my desk who have brought the NHS to its knees. Its knees I tell you!

That's appalling OP, but I think it's normal these days. Waiting times for a doctor's appt are now so long that masses of people who don't need to go to A&E do so. The taking five family members thing though shouldn't be allowed as waiting rooms aren't big enough to accommodate a whole family. I honestly think that you should only be allowed patient + 1 other person at busy times and security should enforce that. Picnicking in waiting rooms should also be banned.

Actually I am allergic to gaffa tape and our Staples shop was on fire that night so maybe just think before you judge.

Piffle, Fuma, back in my day we just used good ol' fashioned twine and we were dandy. You're just full of excuses. Minors in the morning would be fine! Back in the day we just took a whacking dose of laudanum and slept it off.

Fuma I don't understand why you think you need a head? I lost my head years ago and I'm completely fine, in fact it's easier getting through small doorways and saves on haircuts. You sound entitled

@Fuma
An allergy....a bloody allergy? I suppose you wasted NHS resources having allergy tests done??
Back in my day we found out we were allergic to something when it killed us.
That's why I've been dead for the last 50 years!
People today, no idea!!

I suppose people would think I'm a bad person for clogging up emergency clinics. It's not A&E exactly but a same day urgent walk in. I'm in a bad situation and have a chronic health condition. Separate from my bad situation, I had an ongoing problem with my GP practice. Bullying receptionist, GP who dismissed my condition as anxiety, was openly resentful about prescribing my long-term medication (I got diagnosed privately), refuses to believe anything I say, won't read information on my condition or even properly read the consultant notes. Im in a mess, struggling to cope, developef anxiety. A new GP abruptly stopped my medication without even speaking to me. No alternative treatment plan offered. I'm being punished for having to miss a couple of consultant appointments. I've told them why I couldn't attend. I even wrote a letter to my MP about one of the reasons. I've been told I can't have anymore until I see a constanant - but they haven't referred me. I actually don't want them to because the hospital would probably turn down their referral. I went private last time, after GP referral completely inaccurate, including getting the wrong side of the body part. GP told me to just "go to the hospital". I haven't done anything yet because I don't want to waste an emergency clinic. So I'm housebound and taking prescription painkillers. I changed GPs but I'm guessing the new one will wants recent consultant letter.

@SpanglyPrincess1
If you seriously wouldn't go to A&E with a broken bone then it's not your bone that needs looking at, but your head.
A broken bone can lead to longer term issues if not treated promptly.
Which of course uses more resources in the long term.
I've had people like you being booked in at my reception with complications following a broken bone that they tried to either ignore or treat themselves, leading to operations, amputations and ward admissions.