AIBU to complain about the state of A and E last night?

[waterjungle]

I arrived at 9pm with my 1 year old. He had croup that started the previous night. We had two Drs appointments that day where they had said it was just a chest infection and not to be worried. Later in the evening he began to have problems breathing and we couldn’t get his temperature down so decided it was the sensible option.

A and E was heaving. Went to reception, they said wait to be triaged, 3 hours later my we were still waiting. There were so many people with what looked like minor ailments, cuts etc. One family with their 6/7 yr old had an additional 5 family members with them. They had set up a picnic and were feeding him trifle. There was nowhere to sit we got a space in the corner on the floor.

There was a paediatric Dr dealing with a mental health case in the children’s waiting room. That person had been turned away from the emergency psychiatric unit and the police.

The Dr came out and said there would be a 6/7 hour wait and they were overwhelmed. At this 50% of people got up and walked out including picnic family who left all their empty sandwich / crisp/ trifle detritus behind .

Dr caught sight of my son, noticed how unwell he was and rushed him through to resus. His oxygen levels were chronically low. He was in danger and at this point hadn’t even been triaged.

Various doctors came in and apologised saying we had been badly let down and hadn't got the care we should have. They are making a complaint, they told us it was only a matter of time before they missed something and somebody died. They said they were scared and wanted us to make a complaint too so it is officially flagged.

My heart goes out to them. They must be frightened to go into work, I have never seen an emergency room in such a state before. There is obviously chronic understaffing and underfunding but what were those people who walked out doing there? If they had a real emergency surely they would have stayed?

My son was admitted and is going to be fine but it could have been different. It may be different for someone else’s son or daughter. Please don’t go to A and E unless it is really nessacaery. AIBU to think I shouldn’t even have to say that?!

Also how do we go ahead making a complaint or who do we complain to without blaming the doctors or staff who are so obviously doing their best?

Problem is in our area you can’t see a GP for love nor money. I’d bet that some people have been forced to try A&E as a last resort. They aren’t Doing the right thing going to A&E I agree if it can wait but until GPS are more accessible this will keep happening.

If the staff are even telling you to complain then do it (once DC is better obviously). I’d praise the individual staff but complain about the system that delayed those staff getting to see DC.

@Bobbiepin are you calling me a liar? that may have been your experience but I have just told you mine and that is what happened. Just sounds like my local hospital is more competent than yours and knows how to manage young children. Also if you and your daughter were ill that suggests you weren't a young child which is what my post refers to. A&E is for adults - children should and generally do get a better service if you access the care in the right way.

I do think sometimes even when someone comes in with something totally rubbish, if you listen to them they haven't been able to access the appropriate service multiple times. Or don't know the appropriate service etc because it's impossible to access. Or have been fobbed off about 50x by their GP. Or have been sent on some wild goose chase because no one wants to take responsibility for something they should be able to deal with.

A&E is not the place for them, but when they cant access the right service I can see why they get worried and end up in A&E.

I'm not an A&E Dr, and I'm not saying A&E Drs should listen to them but I think it's all too easy for us to just say " these people are stupid and wasting time" when there's a reason so many people are using the wrong service.

I really think the minor bumps & bruises crew need to be turned away tbh. I'm sick of watching A&E documentaries where people who obviously aren't in pain & just with a bruise or tiny, tiny cut, sit there complaining about the wait. I have just once seen a Nurse turn a guy (with a splinter) away: splinters are get your needle & the Dettol out if you grew up in the 70's FFS. Trainee Nurse on reception maybe? To filter them out before triage ?

Yanbu, but I might as well throw in the devils advocate if it helps explain some of the people who left.
I'm the sort of person to brush off health issues and just quietly stress and hope it's less serious/wait for it to go away etc. I very rarely go the doctor even when I probably should.
The one time I've ever been to A&E, I had a severe headache that just felt strange, unlike anything I'd had before, combined with vertigo. It had woken me up days before and like normal I just toughed it out while it got progressively worse. I ended up going to A&E at the insistence of DP after I started to get numb hands and feet combined with even worse vertigo among other things.
Essentially I was investigated for a brain bleed and the doctors reassured me I was right to come in, even though it turned out to be something else less serious.

All of that said, the whole time I was there I felt progressively guiltier on top of the boredom of sitting waiting for hours. Had the doctor said it was another 6 hours wait, I'd have probably gone home too.

YANBU. People are correct that a lot of people mis-use A&E, but surely the whole point of triage is that people are given an initial assessment quickly and the minor cases go to the bottom of the list? The hospital are as much to blame here as the people who shouldn't have been there.

I have a recent and similar story of my own. My 1 year old DD was pushed down some metal steps at the playground and sustained a deep cut to her head (right through to her skull, it turns out). There was a first aid facility nearby, so we were able to quickly get a dressing on it before we dashed to A&E. When we got there, we were triaged relatively quickly. They didn't look at the wound, but checked for indications of brain swelling, internal bleeding, etc - and fortunately there were none. However, we were clearly classified as low priority on that basis - so were sat there for hours while the bleeding continued - dripping everywhere, having long since saturated the dressing. I went up to the desk twice to ask for fresh dressings and a status update and was fobbed off. When we were finally seen, the staff were shocked at how bad the wound was, and it was clear that DD would have been treated far more quickly if they'd actually triaged her appropriately in the first place. It was certainly a lesson to me for how to handle any future accidents, but it's so worrying that people aren't being properly assessed upon arrival to A&E, of all places.

Too many people go to A and E with ridiculous things, things that could be treated with a bit of Savlon and a plaster and too much time is wasted on the self-infliced things lke drunkeness. Stick all the drunks in a room with an urn of coffee and let them sober up.

Yes, please complain. It's the only way the NHS staff may get more support. I have recently received excellent and speedy care in an urgent care centre - I cannot praise them highly enough. After my treatment I got a text message asking me to rate the service. I was so torn - I wanted to be positive so not to do the staff a disservice but I also thought maybe I should be negative to support NHS staff if you get me. I decided to be truthful as I reckon they were only asking about this particular unit and it could be tracked who treated me.

Complain. regardless of the issues around inappropriate attendances you weren't triaged properly. No sensible triage system would leave a 1 year old with breathing difficulties for 3 hours.

I went to A&E earlier in the year ar about midnight midweek. I was ill and very anxious. There was a family with 2 parents and 3 teenagers. I couldn't work out who was ill. They were laughing and joking very loudly. Making a mess and just being awful. I have no idea why you would go to A&E en mass when you're obviously not that ill and the teenagers can be let at home. It's baffling why some people go to A&E. So I feel your frustration.

I feel its easy for things to be missed in A&E because of the gap between checking in, triage and seeing someone.

I'd contact the CQC and your local ccg as well as making a complaint to the hospital. You're not just kicking up a fuss. You're trying to raise real safety concerns.

Also I'm glad to hear your son is doing better.

I would complain about a GP firstly, then about the system. I

Forgot to say, I can never get to see my GP but can always get a phone appt:where they always decide 'I really need to see you'. Appointments for the next 2weeks are 'released' every Wed at noon & are all taken by 1pm, so no point ringing any other time. Its a beyond mad booking system. You cannot book a month in advance either The Nurse is always free, but again always says 'you need to see the Dr'. Aargh.....

It starts from the bottom up, people need to make use of their pharmacy's and use their own money to buy medical supplies they need.

Patients call Everyday for urgent appointments for a sore knee or a slight cold, they will dramatise and say they are struggling to breath or can't walk. They basically lie to get seen on the day then during the appointment just address the cold etc. Our surgery our appointments are always available so you can ring whenever and normally get an appointment in a day or two, or a cancellation on the day.

We also get patients who get prescriptions for things they can buy themselves in the chemist like paracetamol, baby lotion, medicated shampoo, cocodamol, cough medicines, requesting an antibiotic for everything etc it's a joke and a drain on resources because of the entitled population who moan and whinge about everything but refuse to use their own money for silly things.

It’s shocking. Like a third world country.

Well I for one wonder why the Doctors so worried about the crumbling system then voted to ensure that healthcare was free for everyone even if you don't live in this country. Its insane, why would you do that. If you do not live here and like in many countries you should pay for your care. We are clearly not coping with numbers now as it is.

At the very least if we charged people we would have more money to put back into the system to fix the other issues.

Not saying that this is the sole reason but it seriously doesn't help us whatsoever.

Complain!

It’s easy to blame the people who were in A and E when they shouldn’t have been. They’re often only there as minor injury units have been closed, you can’t get a GP appointment for weeks, dentists are shut at weekends and people have dental emergencies. The issue is the chronic and deliberate underfunding of the NHS. It’s the government you need to be angry at, not people in A and E.

I ended up in A and E at Easter this year. On the Thursday I had a niggling tooth and went to the dentist. Dentist told me I had an abscess and booked me in for the following week for an extraction. The next day I woke up with a swollen face. Called 111 who told me the next appointment with emergency dentist would be the next day (Saturday). By Friday evening my face was so swollen one eye was completely shut. Dh drove me 2.5 hours to the nearest private late night dentist. Dentist told me I was too swollen to do anything and told me to call 111 again. 111 then cancelled my appointment for the Saturday and got me an appointment at a maxillo facial for the Sunday. I wake up Saturday both eyes completely swollen shut and struggling to breath. Go to a and e, wait for 3 hours to be triaged and told by a doctor that I should have called 111. I start crying at this point as I was genuinely scared that I was going to die. Another doctor agrees to an extraction under general anaesthetic and a couple of hours later I’m completely back to normal. If I’d just been able to see a dentist the same day I wouldn’t have had to go to A and E and have an operation under general anaesthetic which must have cost the nhs multiple times the amount of have had to pay a dentist. It’s insane.

No do it! If staff have told you to, then you do it. There obviously was a failure with your sons care on that night and he should of been seen quicker. I hope your little one is doing better x

I've been on horrendous nights, where kids could of stayed home really as they run the corridors or play loud TV on tablets while parents shout at them. Or people swear and bang on doors when am I going to be seen, then leave.

They work so hard they but it is a shambles these days. I spent 6 hours waiting to be told they couldn't admit me to their hospital and I had to drive 45 mins to another hospital as their ob/gyn finished at 5pm now and the ward had closed.

It's awful, hospitals are in a terrible state.

In the country where I live, there are 24 hr gp surgeries stationed outside a & e centres. Anyone who turns up at a&e with something minor, gets sent to them. There is sometimes a bit of a wait but it seems to work fine.

cycling because ‘health tourists’ use up such a small percentage of nhs funding it’s barely worth it. The money saved would have to be spent employing people to check everyone’s documents and status. Except they wouldn’t employ anyone else to do it, they’d expect the doctors and nurses to do it and they are already chronically overworked.

Please complain only when people do, do things change. My daughter had appendicitis earlier in the year she is a tough cookie for a teenager as a result it took four days, two trips to A&E and two phone consults with GPs to get diagnosed as she wasn't in enough pain. It was only me eventually pulling the 'I am a vet card and frankly I wouldn't leave a dog in this much pain' that got her admitted and decent pain relief on day 3.

I feel really pedantic, but having the correct terminology will give your complaint weight. From the sounds of things your DC's oxygen levels were critically low ( chronically means it's been going on a long time).

I think you should complain as well. The problem is GP’s are often overwhelmed and lots of areas have no walk in centres. So people are pushed to A&E due to lack of other options. Plus some people have no common sense, lots of things don’t need GP or A&E and can be resolved by a trip to the pharmacy

Yes, complain. It helps, though it may sound counterintuitive. Underfunding and understaffing are whatever the senior staff think they can get away with. Complaints - detailing how dangerous it was - might help them reassess.

If I didn't have a pathological aversion to the idea of suing the NHS, I'd say that the threat of being sued may be the only thing that actually has impact these days, sadly.

As for people who turn up looking for a paracetamol, who don't need to be there, it's partly because doctors' surgeries are now virtually impossible to make an appointment at and partly people being over cautious/unaware of alternatives.

This is common.

You will find a lot of people in A&E who cannot get GP appointments. You can't blame them trying to get care for their kids.

The system is broken and our idiotic country has spent the last 3 years fucking about with Brexit. Imagine what could have been done for the NHS if all that time and resources had been directed properly.

It's absolutely terrifying to see a critically important service so totally fucked.