AIBU to complain about the state of A and E last night?

[waterjungle]

I arrived at 9pm with my 1 year old. He had croup that started the previous night. We had two Drs appointments that day where they had said it was just a chest infection and not to be worried. Later in the evening he began to have problems breathing and we couldn’t get his temperature down so decided it was the sensible option.

A and E was heaving. Went to reception, they said wait to be triaged, 3 hours later my we were still waiting. There were so many people with what looked like minor ailments, cuts etc. One family with their 6/7 yr old had an additional 5 family members with them. They had set up a picnic and were feeding him trifle. There was nowhere to sit we got a space in the corner on the floor.

There was a paediatric Dr dealing with a mental health case in the children’s waiting room. That person had been turned away from the emergency psychiatric unit and the police.

The Dr came out and said there would be a 6/7 hour wait and they were overwhelmed. At this 50% of people got up and walked out including picnic family who left all their empty sandwich / crisp/ trifle detritus behind .

Dr caught sight of my son, noticed how unwell he was and rushed him through to resus. His oxygen levels were chronically low. He was in danger and at this point hadn’t even been triaged.

Various doctors came in and apologised saying we had been badly let down and hadn't got the care we should have. They are making a complaint, they told us it was only a matter of time before they missed something and somebody died. They said they were scared and wanted us to make a complaint too so it is officially flagged.

My heart goes out to them. They must be frightened to go into work, I have never seen an emergency room in such a state before. There is obviously chronic understaffing and underfunding but what were those people who walked out doing there? If they had a real emergency surely they would have stayed?

My son was admitted and is going to be fine but it could have been different. It may be different for someone else’s son or daughter. Please don’t go to A and E unless it is really nessacaery. AIBU to think I shouldn’t even have to say that?!

Also how do we go ahead making a complaint or who do we complain to without blaming the doctors or staff who are so obviously doing their best?

Oh and when she was called she limping in with the mum and dad supporting her. The rest of the family tried to follow but was told to stay as there would not be room.
When she has been seen 20 minutes later she came walking fine and even skipped the last few steps
It’s a miracle

Please PLEASE.. complain to PALS and anywhere else you can think of./

Please don't say the staff at the time told you to do so though.

For those thinking an ambulance automatically gets you triaged and skipping the queue.. it does not!

What it does do, if you don't have a condition that would automatically queue jump you (something v serious!) is clog up an ambulance and team, who cannot hand you over until there is a bed for you to go in, and a nurse to hand you over to.

So instead of YOU sitting in the waiting room for however many hours, instead, you, an ambulance trolley and a paramedic and a technician ALL sit around waiting for a few hours.

Ambulances are for emergencies, for people who may DIE on the way, they are not for queue jumping.

Believe me A&E is like this every day and night in every hospital in the country. Blame the Torys for this and the Trust managers.

Complain to the trusts Chief Exec, and the NHS Ombudsman.

@WarshipWarrior A&E is not just for adults, our Ambulance crews bring children in through us, not direct to paeds.

Everybody is triaged immediately at my local hospital and given a wait time accordingly. Kids with breathing issues are pretty much seen immediately while the drug addicts with cuts / burns get 7 hour waits.

@waterjungle

I am surprised you were kept waiting because I used to be an A & E receptionist and we always fast tracked children and this is still the case now. I was recently admitted to hospital with a suspected heart attack and my treatment was excellent but I did notice a lot of sick elderly people on trolleys because there were no beds available. Unfortunately have worked in the NHS this will always happen because of the limited resources. However I believe the NHS to be one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Boris needs to inject more cash into this asap and I definitely don't want it to be privatised because just look at what happens to people in the US who can't afford health insurance - as for the homeless people in the US well it is disgusting. I recently went to San Francisco and the amount of people who were on the streets with shopping trolley containing all of their possessions was overwhelming.

Back to the thread here is a link to complain

www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/how-to-complain-to-the-nhs/

I have worked

Please note I am in Canada, Ontario to be more precise.

I'm surprised that English hospitals don't publish wait times... this is our local hospital www.wrh.on.ca/waittimesmet

Notice the time given is to be seen BY A DOCTOR.

The only times I've been to emergency is because it WAS an emergency, and each time I've been triaged by a nurse immediately and seen by a doctor within minutes.

I gather the local system is that everyone is triaged almost immediately and then the wait begins. I can't imagine anyone hanging around a waiting room unless they were in distress - they're not very pleasant places.

It sounds like the NHS is in serious trouble.

In 10 years me and DH have been to A&E once each.
My time was 4 days after a c section and my feet and calves had ballooned to triple their normal size and 111 told me to go to a&e to double check it waant a blood clot, DH and DS did stay with me as I wasn't ready to leave him yet and DH needed to actually carry him because of my c section.
I later found out I could have actually gone to the maternity ward as I wasnt technically discharged, this information would have been helpful and would have reduced the a&e wait for myself and others.
DH got attacked and his tear duct was ruptured, they ended up having to have eye surgery at midnight on a Sunday night and the whole department was opened just for him, but this was diagnosed at a&e.
Both times neither of us wanted to go but was advised to.
Sometimes you can bypass it, I got my GP to refer my son to the pediatrics ward so we didn't have to go through a&e, (he was hospitalised for 3 days on a drip, so it was an emergency) it was quicker than a&e and again freed up space for others.

The nurses and doctors are amazing, but it is beyond underfunded. I am so happy your boy is ok OP.

We had a situation this spring when the children all got a terrible bug. After five days of 103/104F we thought the youngest should be checked out (other two got the bug later, but had similar temperatures).

Called GP. They refused to see her as they had no appointments, but said she needed to be seen and to go to A&E (given age of child, days of high temperature).

Called 111. They said see your GP within 4 hours. I explained I couldn’t. 111 called my GP to confirm. Then said, yes, you have to go to A&E. We spent 7 hours in the A&E on the floor. I was on my own with three children under 10 with temps pushing 104F. Something in the system is broken.

Why do people bring multiple family members to A&E? Ridiculous!

The thought of going into hospital even for a routine procedure fills me with total dread - they’re awful, awful places.

To respond to some previous comments :

GP's can and do refer for Xrays
There are only certain physiotherapy depts that can refer for Xrays, not all of them and certainly not paediatric ones

Definitely complain, leaving a child with breathing problems for hours without even triaging them is so dangerous.

I agree A&E is absolutely awful, through no fault of the staff. Also can’t fathom why so many families turn up en masse, as though it is an outing. This also happens at our paed outpatients clinic, and it really clogs up the waiting area and adds to the chaotic and stressful experience. I would have thought a hospital waiting room would be the last place anyone would volunteer to attend, unless absolutely necessary.

We got forgotten about for 4 hours while my daughter was vomiting blood all over the waiting room. It was great
I know it doesn’t affect a &e but we bought private health insurance after that

Unless it was clear, I had nobody to look after the other two DC and was not about to leave two DC under 10 with 104F home alone.

For us, the problem was that our GP was too busy to see DD whilst telling me that giving the temp, duration and age, she needed to be seen. GO said “we are too busy you have to go to A&E”. 111 said the same. We need more GP appointments I think

Yes, complain, but echo emphasise that the staff were not at fault
My recent experiences of our two local A&E depts have been utterly horrendous. The staff were working at absolute capacity and I felt so sorry for them 😢

YANBU

... my relatives took their children to A and E for ringworm because they didn't want to wait for a GP appointment for all 3 kids.

I was in my local a&e last night and witnessed the same issues with large amounts of family members but my biggest concern was the amount of quite obvious drug addicts throwing a fuss because they had to wait to be seen.

I waited from 8pm and was eventually sent to another hospital at 3am. By that time it had cleared out but I was shocked how many people were in a&e and sat in corridors waiting to be signed in. I've been twice in my life yet some of them seemed to be regulars 😕.

I'm a receptionist on A&E.
The things people come in and demand treatment for is mind boggling.
The amount of times I feel like matching them back outside and shouting ' see that bloody sign there that says accident and emergency? Well your broken fingernail is neither!!
Don't even get me started on those who turn up, ask how long the waiting time is, and when told say, oh I'll come back later!
Or those who come complaining that those who've come in after them have been taken through. Yes idiot, because they're here to see their close family member who has just been blue lighted in with a life threatening illness!!
Grrrrrrr 😡

Complain through the procedure, PALS a waste of time.
Last time I took my husband in (existing patient, always advised to take him straight in to our regional specialist hospital where his renal consultant is based, not to call ambulance and get clogged up in the system) he sat delirious, barely upright, while I had to wait for 10 minutes at desk behind couple on holiday. She had a sprained wrist, did it 2 days previously but hadn't been to the excellent walk in clinic sooner as advised because they’d booked and paid for coach excursions. So, they went at night on a Friday because she didn’t want to wait for a GP appointment when they got home the next day! I know all this because she went to great detail, droning on, while sick people waited. No embarrassment at all.
Big sign on reception desk pointing out that “A&E is for life threatening emergencies” (which husband’s was, identified by triage as on sepsis pathway and admitted straight away, in for over a week).

The receptionist was polite as you like to them. That’s part of the problem. Do not go to A&E with minor injuries! When people do they should be redirected elsewhere and told in no uncertain terms that they’re wasting resources.

Definitely complain.

A big part of the problem is people going to A&E for every little thing. My cousin went for a broken wrist. She did it at night and went to A&E the next morning - therefore it's not an emergency! The minor injuries unit is actually closer to where she lives.

All the people who got up to leave when told there was a wait, shouldn't have been there!

I'd do as dr asked and complain.

But I'd do it as a shit sandwich.

Z y and a problems.

X y and a dr were a,asking under circumstances responding quickly when they realise how unwell my son was.

X y and a could have happened if they hadn't due to the points previously raised.

Hope your son recovers quickly

I think it's a bit more nuanced than 'if you can get up and leave you shouldn't be there'. I've left twice due to long waiting times - I don't think either were my fault and I was following advice to attend on both occasions. To be fair both times we had been triaged and emergencies ruled out but I wasn't to know that before I got there.

I have spent my working life dedicated to the NHS and still work for them now and hold it so dear to me so it wasn't a case of abusing it.

I’ve recently had my baby taken into resus from A&E so I know it’s hard to watch

Our experience was also pretty desperate. Ambulance called by GP, which collected us and crashed on the way to hospital. Second ambulance picked us up roadside but radioed ahead to the wrong hospital so the resus team weren’t ready/aware of us when we arrived... many more issues followed but ultimately our son is now fine and the staff were definitely doing their best.

I thought about raising a few concerns at the time but worried it would reflect badly on the staff who tried their best under difficult circumstances.

I also questioned a lot of the clinical decisions and things were acknowledged and changed at the time so a follow up complaint felt a bit heavy handed.