AIBU to complain about the state of A and E last night?

[waterjungle]

I arrived at 9pm with my 1 year old. He had croup that started the previous night. We had two Drs appointments that day where they had said it was just a chest infection and not to be worried. Later in the evening he began to have problems breathing and we couldn’t get his temperature down so decided it was the sensible option.

A and E was heaving. Went to reception, they said wait to be triaged, 3 hours later my we were still waiting. There were so many people with what looked like minor ailments, cuts etc. One family with their 6/7 yr old had an additional 5 family members with them. They had set up a picnic and were feeding him trifle. There was nowhere to sit we got a space in the corner on the floor.

There was a paediatric Dr dealing with a mental health case in the children’s waiting room. That person had been turned away from the emergency psychiatric unit and the police.

The Dr came out and said there would be a 6/7 hour wait and they were overwhelmed. At this 50% of people got up and walked out including picnic family who left all their empty sandwich / crisp/ trifle detritus behind .

Dr caught sight of my son, noticed how unwell he was and rushed him through to resus. His oxygen levels were chronically low. He was in danger and at this point hadn’t even been triaged.

Various doctors came in and apologised saying we had been badly let down and hadn't got the care we should have. They are making a complaint, they told us it was only a matter of time before they missed something and somebody died. They said they were scared and wanted us to make a complaint too so it is officially flagged.

My heart goes out to them. They must be frightened to go into work, I have never seen an emergency room in such a state before. There is obviously chronic understaffing and underfunding but what were those people who walked out doing there? If they had a real emergency surely they would have stayed?

My son was admitted and is going to be fine but it could have been different. It may be different for someone else’s son or daughter. Please don’t go to A and E unless it is really nessacaery. AIBU to think I shouldn’t even have to say that?!

Also how do we go ahead making a complaint or who do we complain to without blaming the doctors or staff who are so obviously doing their best?

I think there are lots of problems with the NHS - not just lack of funding, but the structure of it, which means that many people end up in A&E.

For example, in my part of London there is no walk-in minor injuries unit. So, for example, a few months ago, late one evening I banged my head badly, resulting in a deep cut that looked like it needed stitches. There was nowhere for me to go except my local a&e. There were other people there, with similar injuries. (And no, i didn’t get seen, as they were also heaving with people...)

Like this
www.hey.nhs.uk/news/2017/12/19/ae-serious-stuff-campaign-launched/

Or this
www.bfwh.nhs.uk/patients-urged-to-think-why-ae-and-keep-services-for-those-who-most-need-them/

@WarshipWarrior an ambulance doesn't necessarily get you admitted straight onto a ward. My toddler son was taken to hospital by ambulance twice last year with breathing difficulties (breathing 70+ times a minute) and we still waited hours to be taken on to a paediatric assessment unit, let alone to be admitted to a ward.

WarshipWarrior

You should have called 111 they would have got an ambulance to you and admitted him straight onto a childrens ward

You stated this as fact, and have then got arsey with anyone who said this is not the way their system works (even if they work in the system!) Maybe this is how it happens where you are, but it isn't the case here (or elsewhere, it seems).
Ds has unfortunately had quite a few midnight dashes to hospital...
via 111 (and ambulance to A+E then admission),
111 (OOH....then ambulance to A+E then admission)
999 (A+E then transfer to another hospital, or A+E then admission)
A+E in car
GP (sent to A+E with letter then admission)

The only time we have bypassed A+E was when ds had a direct access pass due to on going needs, that allowed us to call the childrens ward and go straight to A+E, this had to be renewed every 3 months and even with this we had to go to A+E when his breathing was very bad.

Definitely complain. I did, and the process I complained about changed as a result. So it can work. You'd complain if you got a bad meal in a restaurant wouldn't you? I mean, you'd be there on TripAdvisor giving them the one star? Well advising of poor medical treatment is much more important. Glad your lo is better now.

As an aside I'm loving all the people talking about how everyone else in a&e didn't need to be but that they themselves did, not because it was an actual emergency but it might have been. Mhh hhm. That's how it works, Janet.

Oh my days people I'm not saying "get an ambulance- jump the queue!"

I am saying IN MY AREA if you call 111 AND THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY which it would be for a 1 year old with croup - THEY send an ambulance and the paramedics then TRIAGE and take the child to childrens emergency ward from there avoiding a&e.

Sucks for all you if that's not the process in your area I WAS JUST SAYING THATS MY EXPERIENCE.

For what it's worth you should always phone 111 first though for this reason - unless you fancy 7 hours in a&e. Anyway I'm over and out I forgot some people cant accept that if something doesn't happen that way in their area then it doesn't happen anywhere!

If they had a real emergency surely they would have stayed?

I was told on arrival a few months ago that people were waiting for over 7 hours. The waiting area in my local A&E is all hard plastic chairs that set off my chronic pain condition (not why I was there) and quite simply I felt terribly unwell already and just couldn’t face it.

I went home.

I was admitted the following day, very unwell, treated for sepsis.

I hope your ds is ok, OP.

Our experiences of A+E have nearly always been at night and on the whole have been awful. Last year we had to have an ambulance for d's with a burn. It was in the day, busy but calm, more staff....and it was like going to a different place and he was seen immediately.

I really feel for the staff at A&E though, they’re doing their absolute best with dwindling resources and it must be so demoralising for them to have to work under these pressures in these conditions.

As others have said - complain, but not about individuals.

Sorry about your son OP.

As others have said, please do complain. Don't mention staff told you.

The NHS is on its knees. We used to have 'winter pressures' and now that level of overwhelm is the norm. It's horrific. I know my local A&E has been close to being 'unsafe' on a number of occasions. This is totally not down to the people who work there, but is down to issues such as Brexit (overseas staff leaving and no replacements available) and the government thinking we can deal with a rapidly changing demographic (older, sicker, more complex patients) without giving us any extra money.

And FFS cyclingmad please educate yourself. This should help
fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/
It's simply not an issue at a national level.

Ok, you've gone, WarshipWarrior, but...

For what it's worth you should always phone 111 first though for this reason - unless you fancy 7 hours in a&e.

Phoning 111 (in most places) will not save you waiting in A+E.

In my own personal experience of A&E mine is regularly in the news as the worst performing hospital in the UK

I have had varying experiences there - one bad one was 4 hours with DD aged 1 with a concussion being sick all over the floor (and me) and no one even came to help me clear it up. There was just a huge pool of sick around us and I had nowhere to put her down safely to clean it up as she was poorly

The most recent time I went I was sent by my GP for suspected DVT. Ambulatory wouldn’t take me as too busy and I was in A&E for 6 hours. I couldn’t leave as didn’t know if I had a DVT! I too sat and watched the large family parties going on with crisps and sandwiches. Some of them kept going to the shop in the hospital and missing their call from the staff, who then ended up running around trying to find them

I was also sent to A&E once with a severe migraine that I had for 4 days. I had been to the out of hours GP twice and in the end they sent me to A&E as I could not stop vomiting over 4 days could keep no pain relief down and migraine was relentless. After 3 hours they put me on a paracetamol drip, then left me for another 2 hours with it in my arm on a chair, in a cubicle next to a poor man clearly having an agonising appendix episode and the other side a man so drunk he could hardly speak. His GF was with him and thought it was really funny . I didn’t feel I could complain, it was just such a brutal depressing place to be. But I would complain about what happened to your child

@Alabasterangel6

Fucking Hell. In England, right? I don't even know what to say.

....also is childrens emergency ward not the paediatric A+E unit?

IIRC some A&Es have co-located minor injuries and GPs with A&E, so the reception / triage process basically sends people to see the GP or for minor injuries treatment before even entering A&E proper. As the hospital also houses the OOH GP, there is GP cover round the clock.

That obviously doesn't help when the system is so overloaded that triage isn't happening, but it does seem a possible way to spread the load to the 'lowest appropriate level' of the NHS rather than everything going through the 'highest level' service of A&E.

Lri by any chance? If not then yours is not the only hospital with serious issues....

Yes PALS & MP is the way to go here op. Don't mention the staff asked you to do this though.

Cantkeepawayforever- you should have gone to your GP who would have referred your DD for an X-ray. You can often walk in the same day with the referral form for the X-ray. They can't X-ray without a legal documented request from a Dr (GP or hospital) hence you can't just ring up and say you want an X-ray. They should have been telling you this on the phone. There was no need to go to a&e. It was neither an accident or emergency. And that is part of the problem. Not enough of the correct information provided to patients.

Double, I rang my GP, but unfortunately that doesn't appear to be how it works in our area - they were absolutely adamant that they couldn't refer her.

I rang:
Physio who felt the X-ray was needed
GP
111
Local hospital with MIU but no A&E

Every single one said that I had to go to A&E, so I did.

i really do mean i spent hours on the phone, making multiple class, because i was convinced there HAD to be a better way of doing this. But there genuinely wasn't.

OP with the greatest of respect you have no idea why those other people were in A&E. I’ve been with my children with suspected broken bones and given them crisps and chocolate and to others it may look like there’s bigger all wrong with them. If I were told there was going to be a seven hour wait I’d also leave and come back in the morning.

The issue is one of underfunding at every level. People are desperate for a GP appointment but can’t get one for six weeks so feel they have no option available to them but to go to a&e if there’s no minor injuries unit nearby.

I interviewed the CEO of our local hospital last week and he said that there aren’t actually as many people using A&E inappropriately as the government would have us believe. It’s convenient for them if we believe that’s the problem. The real issue is an underfunding issue that has left the NHS in a critical state.

As an aside I'm loving all the people talking about how everyone else in a&e didn't need to be but that they themselves did, not because it was an actual emergency but it might have been. Mhh

@Fuma not sure if that comment meant for me. I was referred to A&E from walk in centre and then diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism- I might be feeling sensitive so apologies.

What I was trying to say some of those people would have accessed the same treatment at the walk in centre instead of sat in the A&E?

@LittleLostThing
Surely both dentists were at fault? The first step for an abcess is antibiotics to reduce inflammation before either a root canal or extraction. I've a congenital condition which has resulted in abscesses before root canal and finally extraction in around 75% of my teeth and it got to the state where I would phone the dentist, say 'there's an abcess starting', I would go in at lunchtime for a quick look and be given a prescription before making an appointment for work in a couple of weeks. You should have had penicillin or metronidisol at the outset.

I didn’t really want to go to A&E and didn’t think I needed to be there more than anyone else to be honest, but I wasn’t given any other options

(To be fair, my - very good - GP said that DD could have an appointment in 2 weeks' time for them to do a visual and hands-on assessment of the foot and recommend whether an X-ray was needed, and then we would have to go to A&E anyway, but that would not be a referral)