To think social class plays a part in making friends

[Jadefeather7]

I know a lot of people will likely find this obnoxious etc but as I’ve become a mum and seeking to make mum friends I feel like I didn’t realise before how much background impacts on friendships. Most of my friends come from a similar background i.e. we are professionals who live pretty comfortably. I was at a coffee morning today and I found myself having to really think about what I was saying. I felt a bit odd talking about my job and lifestyle. I thought about just sticking to baby topics as that’s what we all have in common but there were things that I couldn’t say for example when the mums were talking about babies not sleeping I couldn’t say that we managed to sort out our baby’s sleep with a sleep consultant. I even felt embarrassed about the way I speak English and felt that people would judge me for being ‘posh’.

I do appreciate everything I have had and I don’t look down on people who don’t have those things but I couldn't help feeling like the odd one out today and feeling that I couldn’t really be myself. I’ve read threads complaining about it being the other way around i.e. mums feeling that NCT groups are too “middle class” but I’m finding the reverse. Has anyone else experienced this? Do I need to try to find friends who are more like me or am I just sheltered and needing exposure to different people? If the latter do I just talk freely and risk coming off like a show off/snob or do I need to constantly be aware off how I come across and keep things to myself?

the description of the Glasgow experience made me laugh; it is certainly not typical of working-class families. sounds more like student digs; has your mother-in -law taken up with U3A/ OU, re-claiming her lost youth, the chances she never had...
on a more serious note, this whole discussion got me thinking. if/ when the Govt is full of people who have had such narrow lives, it leads to injustice/ suffering like Windrush scandal, surely everyone goes abroad every year, has a passport, changes bank accounts etc; or problems with being literally penniless while awaiting benefits. It causes real hardship. and it's not only down to hard-nosed Tories, but ignorance, they literally don't know how the other 70% live.
this is very worrying.

perhaps it behoves the more privileged to spread themselves about a bit, even SAHMs, so as to influence govt thinking by a process of osmosis, as everyone knows everyone, to extend knowledge of how other people actually live.

The thing is it's misleading class doesn't always mean money or lack of money. I invited someone for a play date and sort of worried they might live in a hovel ( based totally on appearance accent ) when invited to theirs. Their house was MASSIVE amazing, everything was perfect. They are lovely and I feel bad for judging, when I hate people judging me. However I did invite them first, so I took the risk.

I did have a mum friend who really looked down on me for being a SAHM. She had NCT friends, who I did briefly meet who were very well off. The thing is she made some assumptions there about my wealth, but I dress poor. I'm not wealthy, but it's priorities of what you spend on it innit

But I also live in a military area and the families all stick together and it's hard to make friends. We live in a normal house, but apparently I'm posh/rich because I'm not on base or in military rentals. A "friend" wouldn't let me have some second hand clothes she was giving away, because I don't need freebies #awkward

I think it's sadly quite common that people don't choose to mix with people who they judge as not like them. I live in a very diverse area of London but despite this 99% of the groups of mums I see will be all white women, or all black women or all Portuguese women, there is very rarely a mixed group socialising. I am middle class, privately educated but had DD young, and work in a lowly paid job, I was excluded by the older middle class mums and by the younger working class mums, as I didn't fit neatly into either box. People are visibly shocked when I tell them I have a child, exclaim how young I am etc. whereas a working class female colleague who had a baby younger than I did never got such comments. It used to really bother me that I was being actively ignored at baby groups, but I soon wised up and realised I don't want to be friends with dickheads who think they are better than others for some spurious reason. People are people and if you can't see past the class they were born into then you are very narrow minded indeed. It isn't hard to work out how to talk to people without coming across like a knob.

I’m from a very WC background. But lived in a very MC area when DS was born. Apart from the clique who had all lived in the village forever I found locally all the mums were lovely. We went to baby groups in loads of different areas and made a big group of friends: shop workers, teachers, waitresses, scientists, dentists, doctors, admin staff, a company director. In one particular group one woman is loaded, the rest of us vary in household income. But the struggles we had were similar. And we all have remained very good friends

*It's one of the reasons I think I find it hard to make new friends. I have a middle class background but look and speak like I'm working class.

I've noticed that stereotypical middle class type women are a bit sneering towards me but I don't fit in with the working class ones either really.

I'm sort of stuck in a social class wilderness.*

This is me too although not as clear cut for me.

My mother had a very middle class background but I was dragged up essentially. My father has a very middle class background but i only saw him EOW.

It's so confusing! Even as an adult

I don’t think YABU OP
I’m from a WC background but now probably ‘slot’ more in to the MC bracket.
The friend I made at baby group was probably part of the precariat if anything. The class was in a deprived area of an already fairly deprived town. I felt like such a twat most of the time!

Class isn't real. It's a made up, meaningless British thing. I have friends from all walks of life.

I come from a long line of well educated cultured people. Some of my closest friends come from very humble backgrounds or have chosen to lead a simpler life (dropping out of uni, sending kids to state schools etc). The only class I struggle with are the firmly middle yet desperately trying to rise. Everyone else is pleasant. Take from that what you will.

Everything they do is poor and mediocre yet deeply pretentious: they play music badly, they read badly, they decorate their houses badly, and garden with the same plants as everyone else, also badly. They go on dull days to the national trust, and have tasteless afternoon teas.

All these people do all these things, verticallity?

I will stay away from anyone who is constantly telling me about how rich they are. It's very easy

I've just been for a hair cut. And the woman next to me was telling the hairdresser doing her hair how she'd been to a boat show last week and her husband had put an offer in for a £500K boat. But she'd made him cancel as they should enjoy their current boat.

Not so stealth boast...

And the hairdresser isn't that expensive - otherwise I wouldn't be there!

Class isn't real. It's a made up, meaningless British thing. I have friends from all walks of life.

It's made up in the same sense that everything is 'made up'.

Class is very much alive and kicking. Most people can tell someone's class within seconds of meeting.

But what does this perceived class tell you about that person? Very little.

You'll know I'm from Yorkshire as soon as you speak to me and you'll probably correctly assume I'm working class but that tells you nothing about my interests,hobbies, education, likes, dislikes, opinions, politics etc etc.

It's quite clear that humans assume class and then that colours their opinion on a person for reasons I don't understand. It almost certainly matters to us though. Perhaps it is as simple as 'birds of a feather stick together'.

@LolaSmiles That’s the point I’m making. I’m not used to having to think so carefully about how I can make my life style seem acceptable to others. With the sleep issues it was partly the technique (which I had read about in books already) but also the support the consultant provided as without her encouragement to persist I would have given up. Anyway it just seems like a lot of effort to me because I’ve never done this. I’m just open and honest with my friends.

Class isn't real. It's a made up, meaningless British thing
Nonsense. It exists as a way of talking about social groups and existing phenomena

I always wonder how anyone looks at society and thinks "gosh would you look at that, society has no social groups with commonalities, I couldn't possibly say that someone who owns a 5 bed house in a leafy area and sends their child to private school has a different experience to someone raising 3 kids in a 1 bed flat, I'm sure they both have very similar experiences and they wouldn't have anything in common with people in similar social situations at all".

I've just been for a hair cut. And the woman next to me was telling the hairdresser doing her hair how she'd been to a boat show last week and her husband had put an offer in for a £500K boat. But she'd made him cancel as they should enjoy their current boat.

Both current and prospective boat would be utterly inadequate at any port that really matters.

People who say class isn't real in this country are kidding themselves. Look at the murder of Yousef Makki and tell me if the outcome would be the same if his killers were working class from a council estate.

I think it's more about shared experiences and the ability to empathise than class per se. Most of my friends are much better off than me but we have other things in common such as humour, interests, likes dislikes etc. If discussion turns to money I tend to block it out as it can lead to division so easily.

It plays a part. I’m from a working class background. Now probably middle middle class. I have friends from all different backgrounds - some very privileged (very expensive public schools, titled family) and other from relatively poor backgrounds. I have something in common with them all though from things like uni together to having children at a similar time, or working in the same industry

I don’t really care about their backgrounds. It more important where they are now in their lives

Sometimes it’s chemistry and you just click with some people or groups even though on paper you shouldn’t be friends. It’s not always class though think it’s natural to find it easier being in the company of those of similar background education and experience but not always.

I provide a service and clients often recommend me to their friends. It always makes me smile that the friends are almost always carbon copies - similar ages houses looks relationship dynamic.

I always wonder how anyone looks at society and thinks "gosh would you look at that, society has no social groups with commonalities, I couldn't possibly say that someone who owns a 5 bed house in a leafy area and sends their child to private school has a different experience to someone raising 3 kids in a 1 bed flat, I'm sure they both have very similar experiences and they wouldn't have anything in common with people in similar social situations at all".

Yes. I suspect some people occasionally pretend class doesn't exist because they have an idea that the uppers don't notice it. Most people do pick up on indicators, and in particular motherhood (as in the OP's case) brings class divisions into sharper focus because all the sudden you're raising children.

That’s the point I’m making. I’m not used to having to think so carefully about how I can make my life style seem acceptable to others.
Acceptable according to who? That's what I don't get. You seem to have assumed that because you have money, speak a certain way and can afford to buy in a sleep consultant that all these other mums just have an issue with you (presumably because being working class they must envy what you have? You feel that they are judging you for having money? I don't know, I hate the jealousy lines on here but I can't see what else you'd be assuming about them).

Most people wouldn't have an issue with someone's background if they are friendly and grounded.

For example, one of mine and DH's friends has a very affluent background (think expensive private school and enough savings to buy a good sized house in an expensive area on leaving university). You wouldn't know to talk to them because they are grounded, they don't hide their background but equally it isn't an issue.

Someone else we know is more affluent than us (but not like friend 1), but they can't help but draw attention to wealth either by the way they drop things into conversation in a ways that's not that relevant or continuously stressing about various issues they think their colleagues / DH's friends have because they speak "posh" compared to the area. They're almost hyper aware to the point of them simultaneously feeling awkward about their situation whilst wanting everyone to realise that they're a little further up the social pecking order.

Friend 1 is easy going and gets on with everyone.
Friend 2 seems to find it impossible to get on with anyone who isn't just like her and it's bizarre.

Interesting fact - oxytocin makes you feel loved up about your immediate circle, it also increases wariness of anyone different to you.

So all the cutesy baby feelings also come with less tolerance for people outside our immediate set.

I think I would have just mentioned the sleep consultant tbh. I'm on a 'mummy' facebook group for my town and people suggest lactation consultants/ people to cut tongue tie all the time.

OP, I cant help but wonder why you felt you had to do that? What was it about the other mums that made you think you were posher than them? Their dress, the way they spoke etc? Do you know what jobs they did?