Parents keep baby’s sex a secret to avoid gender bias

[Doyoumind]

This story has been covered pretty widely but I don't think it's been mentioned on here.

A couple have a 17 month old who they refer to as 'they' and the couple didn't even tell family what sex the child is.

Fine, keep things gender neutral and avoid stereotypes but referring to your child only as 'they' is totally othering. They will soon hear other children being referred to differently.

Pretty soon that child will be talking. Unless it lives in a bubble and never has stories read to it that child will understand there are boys and girls and wonder which they are. They will start to realise the difference between when mummy and daddy go to the toilet, unless they are never to be seen naked. At that point they will know whether they are a boy or a girl if their parents are honest and explain the physical differences between male and female.

Their parents might be able to shield them from gender stereotypes to some extent bit they can't deny the obvious biology.

Or are they going to say only some men have penises and some women do too?

I have another friend who was determined her daughter wouldn't automatically wear pink, glitter and you name it. That lasted about a week 🤣 and daughter is VERY into all things girly - I cringe, and my gifts to her are almost always as not-specifically-girlie as I can, because she will get a sea of pink glittery nail stuff from everybody else, and my feminist heart dies a little every time

This is what saddens me, little girls arent allowed to like pink. and dolls without society being up in arms that this has been forced on them!

Sorry, I should have said what sex they are. Still learning!

All this shite about ‘assigning a gender’. Their sex is ‘recognised’ and gender is a load of old bollocks that is a sexist way of imposing sexist stereotypes. They are correct in not wanting their child treated any differently because of their recognised sex, but it’s a completely daft and lazy way to go about it. It would be more beneficial to the guild to acknowledge his/her sex and educate the child that the world is a sexist place and what steps they can take to help change that.

this is ridiculous and I can only think it will just cause the child problems in the long run.

Its one thing (rightly!) teaching kids that toys are not specifically for boys or girls, and colours are not gender specific, etc etc (all of which I have done myself!) and then there is this!

what do they hope to achieve?!

Beneficial to the *child

Most likely they'll choose their actual sex once they can understand the concept

huh? we dont choose our sex

It's nuts, and I agree that things are going backwards not forwards.

I grew up in the 70s and my mum had absolutely no problem with me riding a chopper bike or asking for Evel Knievel for Christmas, I don't remember anyone saying I should be wearing dresses etc.

“The only way to protect a child from stereotyping is to not reveal it’s sex.”

But you do know that a child with pronouns they/them who does not reveal their sex is in fact subject to stereotypes too? It may shield them from boy vs girl stereotypes, but it would definitely be exposing them to stereotypes about the types of parents they have, about their lifestyle, about whether they are intersex. And being a “they” is going to be a very small minority. The child will have no in group of fellow he’s or she’s . The child will be more exposed to bullying imho.
It’s not protecting them from stereotypes, it’s merely trading one set of stereotypes for another.

if they just said to people 'she is a girl but can you treat her exactly the same a a boy' for example, most people just wouldn't be able to do it no matter how hard they tried

what do you mean? I don't understand how anyone would be treating a toddler girl differently to a toddler boy?

my toddler boy has dolls, a kitchen, cars, trucks etc so a mixture of toys that are historically for girls or for boys and wears whatever I like which includes leggings from the girls section because who gives a fuck as long as he looks presentable and he's comfy and happy.

I don't believe that "most people" would struggle to treat 2 toddlers of different sexes the same. I really don't. Not nowadays.

The parents say they have taken this approach to stop their child being stereotyped, but in reality I think this attitude against a person who is not able to make that choice themselves just reinforces stereotypes.
Sure, in the short term the child won’t be being treated ‘as a girl/boy’ but the parents say they will allow the child to decide for themselves what they feel like they are when old enough, so is the child going to simply get to an age where they say ‘I like ponies, dancing and long hair so I must be a girl’ or ‘I like football, wrestling and DIY so I must be a boy’
Why can’t we just raise our children to understand that biologically speaking you are male or female but the possession of a penis doesn’t automatically make you a keen golfer, just as the possession of a vagina doesn’t mean I spend my Sunday’s flower arranging.

Why can’t we raise our girls to feel as empowered and confident to try new challenges as we do our boys, and raise our boys to speak openly about their mental health and be sensitive to the emotions of themselves and others like we do our girls?
Why can’t we just fucking raise PEOPLE who happen to have genitals of a certain kind safe in the knowledge that they are no more or less of a person than those with the other kind of genitals?!?

Note the ageist comment 'old ladies in the park'.
"Don't assume our child's sex old lady"

Absolutely. Don’t dare be impose stereotypes on our child, but we can be ageist dicks if we want to. Hypocrisy in full view.

Attention seeking crap. They are actually putting more emphasis on their kids gender than anyone by doing this. The child has a vagina (it's a girl, I can tell) so is a female whether they like it or not, but if they want to buy her toy tool kits, cars and action men to play with, and dress her in spider man t-shirts and jeans, that's great,no one gives a shit. But don't deny her (or her poor grandparents) the right to an important part of her identity.

I can’t believe even on mumsnet people are still mistaking sex for gender.

You can never ever change your sex! It’s biological.

Gender is a social construct, you can change your gender (technically) but not your sex!

If I was asked to describe myself, the first thing that would come to mind is I’m a woman. Your gender is a massive part of your identity. It is extremely important to us that we are able to define our gender.
Imagine that child going to nursery in a couple of years and not knowing what sex he/she is. The kids will ask and they will reply ‘I don’t know ‘ which will only make the child look stupid making him/her a target for bullies.
Let the kid play with or dress in what they want but dressing them as both now is not shaping their future in a positive way as they do not have the ability to choose how to dress yet. Research has proven boys generally prefer playing with toys like cars and girls with dolls, even when given the choice. This shows how different we are. As a baby, the child doesn’t care, but soon enough they will notice they are being raised differently.
Which toilet do they use when they get to school? They will be very confused. If it’s a boy, the girls won’t be happy and if it’s a girl, I bet she feels uncomfortable going in a boys loo.
The parents are circus performers though. I’d guess clowns.

It's a load of old shit. There is nothing wrong with bringing a child up in a gender neutral atmosphere, (I did it myself with my DD 20+ years ago) especially in a society that is obsessed with gender, but this is ridiculous. The child is either male or female, that is irrefutable however the parents feel about it. Much better to model sex/gender in a positive, non stereotypical way rather than ignore it, it won't go away.

It's ridiculous and I fear for the child.

DD comes home from nursery and every single day she tells me she's mostly played with cars and trains.
I'm pleased that nursery haven't pushed her towards the girls toys. At home she has some toys traditionally aimed at girls and some aimed at boys. She likes them all and definitely doesn't realise yet that she's 'supposed' to favour one type of toy over another.

Equally she wears 'girls' clothes some days and 'boys' clothes other days.

As a baby I didn't put her in dresses just because they didn't seem the most comfortable when she spent much of the day lying down or sitting in the pushchair. As a baby strangers always assumed she was a boy. I didn't really care.

She knows she's a girl and she's nowhere near being 3, an age stated by more than one poster on this thread that children don't have awareness of sex/gender before reaching. I think it would already be confusing for DD if I was not ever referring to her as a girl.

I think the point is you can educate your child to do or be whatever you want but other people will just undo this.

For example you try and encourage your son to talk about his feelings. All it takes is one adult to make a silly 'dry your tears, boys don't cry' comment to undermine this. You teach him that daddies do equal housework and childcare and then someone in a shop makes a comment about dolls and hoovers etc being girls toys.

You teach your daughter that looks dont matter, it's how you act and what you do that counts, and everyone is always saying things about their clothes or appearance. And because I dont want to be a complete social leper I don't say anything, just smile, and try and say other things at home like you are clever and you are strong. She started school last week and the praise she has got from the teachers - nice hair style and a sticker for tidying nicely.

My point is we dont raise kids in a vacuum. Kids are constantly being fed stereotypes from the minute they are born and then grow up into adults who follow these stereotypes eg men dont speak about their feelings as much so bottle things up and have a much higher suicide rate. Women have a much higher rate of plastic surgery as they are not happy with their appearance. This family are just trying to stop their child being exposed to this for a little bit longer

I think it’s a bit too far into being bonkers but then I don’t really remember having any stereotypes thrown my way growing up (in my immediate family anyway) and I fully intend to raise my DD and DS the same way.

My DB loved playing with dolls houses and making jewellery with my little sister - he liked the discovery and intricate nature of those sorts of things. My sister was into princesses and also running around like a loon outside getting as dirty as possible. I followed my Grandad around and learnt all about landscaping, growing food in his little veggie patch and helped him with DIY. At no point did either Grandparent stop me. Occasionally my Grandma would ask if I didn’t want to do something more ‘girly’ but my blank expression obviously conviced her to stop trying to get me dressed up for family photos.

I have had to correct PIL on occasion with my twins but rarely. All of their immediate relations are just happy to see them do their own thing. DD is loud and proud and unless she’s having a tantrum doesn’t get told to quieten down. DS is loving and pensive and rarely makes much noise, I love sitting with him and reading.

This is my approach to gender neutral parenting and rather than avoiding challenging those who may treat my children differently based on their sex by not disclosing it, I see it as an important part of educating my kids whenever it comes up. I think that’s more important but that’s just me 😊

So when do we start classifying anything that breathes as non binary?? Do we have non binary pets, livestock and so on??

What an absolute and utter load of bollocks - oh, I can't say that, it's not non binary, also sexist and offensive 😂

This family are just trying to stop their child being exposed to this for a little bit longer

yes, and instead this child is likely going to get bullied, or excluded by other children, not have as many friends etc etc

they are just causing more problems than they are solving.

I hate to say it but this child probably isn't going to have an easy time at school with circus performers as parents, and living on a houseboat (nothing at all wrong with those things, but anything different is picked out by children because they can be cruel) and i personally wouldn't be making it any harder for them.

(it's a girl, I can tell) so is a female whether they like it or not, but if they want to buy her toy tool kits, cars and action men to play with, and dress her in spider man t-shirts and jeans, that's great,no one gives a shit

People absolutely do give a shit. And will openly comment and laugh at small children dressed in a percieved “wrong” gender.

Try taking a 2 year old with short hair out in public in a dress. It was not a fun experience.

And by the way, I raised my sons with 'gender neutral' toys. Dolls, they ignored, loved their toy kitchen and one DS used the toy broom to sweep poo and wee up and down the hallway when he was potty training!!

yes, and instead this child is likely going to get bullied, or excluded by other children, not have as many friends etc etc

So bullying is OK if the child has stepped outside the norm and therefore “deserves” it?

Why don’t people tell their child not to bully other children, regardless of what the have “done”.

Victim blaming.

Utter woke bulls!t.

it's a girl, I can tell

No you can't. You can only make a guess.