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Finding a way through 'the avalanche of crazy' or Trump thread 96.

970 replies

lionheart · 17/09/2019 02:02

From back in Decemeber:

'This shouldn’t get lost in the avalanche of crazy. The wall we need is between DOJ and the White House. The foundation of our democracy- the rule of law- depends on it.' Sally Q. Yates.

Smile

Old thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3645518-Its-High-Crimes-and-Misdemeanours-Time-Trump-thread-no-95

Finding a way through 'the avalanche of crazy' or Trump thread 96.
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Thread gallery
31
lionheart · 02/10/2019 00:12

www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/us/politics/impeach-giuliani-subpoena.html

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TheClaws · 02/10/2019 01:03

Trump incites civil war, again.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
As I learn more and more each day, I am coming to the conclusion that what is taking place is not an impeachment, it is a COUP, intended to take away the Power of the....

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
....People, their VOTE, their Freedoms, their Second Amendment, Religion, Military, Border Wall, and their God-given rights as a Citizen of The United States of America!

TheClaws · 02/10/2019 01:10

Potentially interesting story developing here.

Katherine Faulders
@KFaulders
·
2h
SCOOP: State Department IG requests urgent briefing on Ukraine scheduled for tomorrow on Capitol Hill. Story developing here w/
@cjf39

TheClaws · 02/10/2019 01:12

North Korea takes a moment to shoot off another missile.

(((DeanObeidallah)))
@DeanObeidallah
·
44m
BREAKING NEWS! North Korean projectile landed in Japan's exclusive economic zone, Tokyo says

TheClaws · 02/10/2019 01:13

^ I should point out the missile landed IN THE SEA in Japan’s Economic Zone.

TheClaws · 02/10/2019 02:38

Recommend a read ..

House Foreign Affairs Committee
@HouseForeign
BREAKING -
@RepAdamSchiff
,
@RepCummings
, and
@RepEliotEngel
warn
@StateDept
: any attempt by
@SecPompeo
to intimidate witnesses violates the law and is obstruction of the impeachment inquiry. Read the chairmen’s letter here. ⬇️⬇️⬇️ foreignaffairs.house.gov/_cache/files/4/6/4683bc86-be2a-49fc-9e76-7cdbf669592f/98BEBD8006DE62BA36BEBD175775F744.2019-10-1-ele-abs-eec-to-depsec-sullivan.pdf

TheClaws · 02/10/2019 05:46

The Hill
@thehill
·
34m
Pompeo shuts down Dems' subpoena, says his officials won't appear for impeachment depositions hill.cm/qJTmj2U

TheClaws · 02/10/2019 05:50

Don’t forget that I tweeted about Seb Gorka (!!) and a select Fox News crew hopping on a plane to Rome with Sec Pompeo the other day ... they still haven’t returned.

lionheart · 02/10/2019 08:52

Maybe they would be better off staying in Rome (with apologies to the Italians).

www.businessinsider.com/barr-unusual-call-trump-give-advice-giuliani-russia-2019-10?r=US&IR=T

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-coup-impeachment-inquiry_us_5d93e811e4b0e9e76054a088?ri18n=true

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AcrossthePond55 · 02/10/2019 13:24

It's really starting to heat up, isn't it? I have a feeling the next alligator filled moat Scrotus is going to want will be one around 1600 Pennsylvania Ave!

lionheart · 02/10/2019 14:19

Oh yes. The shredders must be working overtime.

www.courthousenews.com/us-gives-court-no-assurances-on-records-preservation/

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lionheart · 02/10/2019 14:47

edition.cnn.com/2019/10/02/business/manufacturing-trade-war-trump-fed/index.html

'New York (CNN Business)The trade war is doing real damage to the American economy, and it's showing up in manufacturing. Factories in a wide range of businesses, from clothing to machinery are suffering declines in exports.

The slowdown in manufacturing — often an early indicator of problems in the wider economy — showed up starkly in a dreadful report released on Tuesday. Factory activity contracted in September for the second straight month; by some measures it was the worst month in a decade. The bad news spooked investors and the Dow fell nearly 350 points, or 1.3%.'

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Sleipnirthewonderhorse · 02/10/2019 14:50

Donald Trump impeachment: President called Boris Johnson for help to discredit Mueller inquiry

President Trump personally contacted Boris Johnson to ask for help as he tried to discredit the Mueller investigation into possible connections between Russia and his 2016 eThe US president is believed to have asked Mr Johnson for his help during a congratulatory phone call on July 26, two days after the prime minister took office.

Mr Barr arrived in London days later to attend a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing alliance. He shared with British officials his suspicions about the information that triggered the Mueller investigation and the role of British intelligence agencies in collecting it.

The US Department of Justice said Mr Trump had contacted foreign allies to ask them to assist Mr Barr and John Durham, the US attorney in charge of looking into the Mueller investigation. Mr Durham has accompanied Mr Barr on at least two trips to Italy.

Australian, Ukrainian and Italian officials have all confirmed calls from Mr Trump. Downing Street has refused to comment.lection campaign, The Times understands.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/donald-trump-impeachment-president-called-boris-johnson-for-help-to-discredit-mueller-inquiry-jlkztnfpx

lionheart · 02/10/2019 14:55

Off piste ...

MSNBC
@MSNBC

JUST IN: Sec. Pompeo acknowledges for first time that he was on President Trump call with Ukrainian president at center of impeachment inquiry.

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cozietoesie · 02/10/2019 16:15

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link, lion.

lionheart · 02/10/2019 16:39

After a spell check (Moot becomes Moat):

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

'Now the press is trying to sell the fact that I wanted a Moat stuffed with alligators and snakes, with an electrified fence and sharp spikes on top, at our Southern Border. I may be tough on Border Security, but not that tough. The press has gone Crazy. Fake News!'

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lionheart · 02/10/2019 18:21

www.vox.com/2019/9/29/20889765/trump-whistleblower-fox-news-sunday-stephen-miller-giuliani-stephanopoulos?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

'Stephen Miller struggles on Fox News, and other lowlights from the Sunday morning efforts to defend the president.'

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lionheart · 02/10/2019 21:27

I guess he's taking advice from someone, cozie. Smile

Maybe.

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cozietoesie · 02/10/2019 22:40

Does he take advice from ANYONE?

PossiblyPFB · 02/10/2019 23:09

“Officials close to Pence” trying to spin ‘poor Innocent Pence knows nothing’ , poss starting to prep for him to take over if 45 has to go........😒

www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-involved-pence-in-efforts-to-pressure-ukraines-leader-though-aides-say-vice-president-was-unaware-of-pursuit-of-dirt-on-bidens/2019/10/02/263aa9e2-e4a7-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html

President Trump repeatedly involved Vice President Pence in efforts to exert pressure on the leader of Ukraine at a time when the president was using other channels to solicit information that he hoped would be damaging to a Democratic rival, current and former U.S. officials said.
Trump instructed Pence not to attend the inauguration of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in May — an event White House officials had pushed to put on the vice president’s calendar — at a time when Ukraine’s new leader was seeking recognition and support from Washington, the officials said.
Months later, the president used Pence to tell Zelensky that U.S. aid was still being withheld while demanding more aggressive action on corruption, officials said. At that time — following Trump’s July25 phone call with Zelenksy — the Ukrainians probably understood action on corruption to include the investigation of former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden.
[‘A presidency of one’: Key federal agencies increasingly compelled to benefit Trump]
Officials close to Pence insist that he was unaware of Trump’s efforts to press Zelensky fordamaginginformation about Biden and his son, who had served on the board of an obscure Ukrainian gas company, when his father was overseeing U.S. policy on Ukraine.
Pence’s activities occurred amid several indications of the president’s hidden agenda. Among them were the abrupt removal of the U.S. ambassador to Kiev; the visible efforts by the president’s lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, to insert himself in the U.S.-Ukraine relationship; as well as alarms being raised inside the White House even before the emergence of an extraordinary whistleblower complaint about Trump’s conduct.


Perhaps most significantly, one of Pence’s top advisers was on the July25 call and the vice president should have had access to the transcript within hours, officials said.
Trump’s deployment of Pence is part of a broader pattern of using both executive authority and high-ranking officials in his administration to advance his personal or political interests — even in cases when those subordinates appear not to know that another agenda is in play.
Officials close to Pence contend that he traveled to Warsaw for a meeting with Zelensky on Sept.1 probably without having read — or at least fully registered — the transcript of Trump’s July25 call with the leader of Ukraine.
White House officials said that Pence likely would have received the detailed notes of the president’s call in his briefing book on July 26.The five-page document also should have been part of the briefing materials he took with him to Warsaw to prepare for the meeting, according to the officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal matters.
But officials said Pence and his staff weren’t aware that the call had provoked alarminside the White House — even though his national security adviser,retired Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg, had been monitoring it. It’s also not clear whether Pence failed to read the White House account of the call in his briefing book or read it and found it unremarkable.
A Pence aide disputed the notion that the vice president was poorly prepared for his meeting with Zelensky, and pointed to the eventual outcome — that the Trump administration ultimately released the aid — as a sign of a productive meeting. The White House Counsel’s Office did not alert the vice president’s office to the existence of the whistleblower complaint until the day before it became public, the aide added.
[Impeachment inquiry puts new focus on Giuliani’s work for prominent figures in Ukraine]
In his meeting with Zelensky, Pence conveyed the news that hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. aid to Ukraine was not going to be released amid concerns about the country’s lagging efforts to combat corruption. He also emphasized Trump’s frustration that he thought the European Union was not doing a sufficient job in helping to provide aid. A participant in the meeting said Zelensky was “crestfallen” by the news, though a second participant described the meeting as “cordial” and Zelensky as understanding of U.S. concerns.


At that point, Ukraine’s president had already spoken to Trump and was familiar with the president’s demands. Pence did not mention Biden or the dormant probe of Burisma, the company for which his son had served as a board member. But former officials said that Pence’s emphasis on corruption probably would have been interpreted by Zelensky as “code” for that issue, whether the vice president intended it or not.
A top Pence staffer rejected the charge that the vice president was conveying an inappropriate — or coded — message from the president.
“The president consistently raised concerns about corruption and the lack of burden sharing by European partners, so having run on an anti-corruption campaign, Zelensky was receptive to those messages,” said Marc Short, Pence’s chief of staff. “The vice president, as your reporting says, reported back to the president after the meeting and the aid was released.”
Pence often seems to bethe last to be aware of major problems or scandals —a phenomenon that depicts the vice president as out of the loop at times. But it also helps insulate him from controversy within the White House.
Pence’s staff was weighing whether to lead a delegation to attend Zelensky’s inauguration in May, an important vote of confidence for the new Ukrainian president whose nation has come to view the United States as a bulwark against Russian aggression. Russia has annexed Crimea, a part of Ukraine, and continues to foment a separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine. 


The date of the inauguration had been in flux, the White House still had not dispatched advance staff and Secret Service to Ukraine, and no visit had been officially confirmedwhen the president instructed Pence not to attend, according to officials. A current and former official confirmed Trump’s instructions, which were also mentioned in the whistleblower report.
“We do not comment on conversations between the president and the vice president,” Short said.
Instead of traveling to Kiev for the May20 inauguration, Pence attended a Trump campaign event in Jacksonville, Fla., and made an official trip to Canada later that month, officials said.
A senior administration official said Pence was not among the handful of officials at the White House and the State Department who listened in on Trump’s July25 call with Zelensky, which is a key element of the whistleblower report and the impeachment inquiry.
In the call, Trumpasked fora “favor” andurged Zelensky to cooperate with Attorney General William P. Barr to look for compromising information about Hunter Biden. Without evidence, Trump alleged that Joe Biden used his influence as vice president in 2016 to kill an investigation into the gas company and his son.
A few weeks before the call, Trump had ordered the suspension of all military security assistance to Ukraine.
Kellogg, Pence’s top national security adviser, listened in on the call from the Situation Room, which was the standard practice, but did not see it as unusual or flag any concerns about it to the vice president, officials said.


White House lawyers, alarmed by the call, quickly moved detailed notes of it from a widely shared internal computer network to one reserved for “codeword-level” records about CIA covert action programs and other highly classified material.
The whistleblower, a CIA officer who learned about the call from dismayed White House officials, moved swiftly behind the scenes to assemble material from multiple sources and prepare a complaint.
In early September, with a hurricane bearing down on Florida, Trump canceled a trip to Poland, where he was scheduled to attend a World War II commemoration and meet with Zelensky to discuss the frozen U.S. aid.
Instead he sent Pence, with instructions to “take the measure” of the Ukrainian leader and inform him that the administration wasn’t going to release the aid until it had assurances that Zelensky was committed to fighting corruption, U.S. officials said.
Just before the Sept.1 meeting with Zelensky in Warsaw, Pence declined to respond to a question from a Washington Post reporter about whether the Trump administration would still allocate the security aid to Ukraine.
“We will continue to stand with the people of Ukraine on your security, on territorial integrity,” he replied.
Zelensky replied that his administration was poised to “defeat corruption.”
Once the meeting began, Pence faulted the E.U. for not providing more security aid to Ukraine, just as Trump did on the July25 call, andalso reiterated the administration’s position that Zelensky needed to do more to fight corruption.


When Zelensky asked about the aid, Pence replied that the administration was “still looking at it,” a U.S. official said.
At a news briefing the next day, Pence reiterated the administration’s “great concerns about issues of corruption” and expressed confidence that Zelensky was moving to address the problem.
Upon his return to Washington, Pence told Trump that Zelensky seemed to have a“good heart” and “was good on anti-corruption and pushing back on the oligarchs,” said a U.S. official. The vice president expressed confidence that Zelensky seemed to be surrounding himself with “good people,”twoofficials said, and encouraged Trump to release the aid.
A few weeks later — under pressure from Democrats and Republicans in Congress who saw the aid to Ukraine as critical to standing up to Russia andwith Pence’s assessment that he should provide Ukraine with the support — Trump relented and released the aid to Ukraine. Pence and Zelensky spoke again on Sept.18 in a call that U.S. officials described as somewhat perfunctory.
Zelensky expressed gratitude for the aid and Pence wished him well on his upcoming meeting with Trump at the United Nations. Later that evening, The Post first reported that the whistleblower complaint, which was being withheld from Congress, involved Trump and a conversation with a foreign leader.

cozietoesie · 02/10/2019 23:47

Oh boy.

littlebillie · 02/10/2019 23:58

I've been trying to understand what's gone on today that was useful.

I have to say the Finnish pms face was a picture

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