AIBU to think teachers should be respectful to pupils?

[mammaplay]

DS 11 has just started secondary school. He has mild SEN needs which the school are aware of (effects speed of work and presentation).
Today in front of the class, the maths teacher screwed up his worksheet, threw it in the bin and simply handed him a new worksheet (with no verbal communication) as he'd made a minor mistake in not leaving enough space on the page.
AIBU to think this type of behaviour from teachers is a bit 'old school' and unnecessary, or am I being completely precious about my little snowflake?

Honestly don’t say that in several weeks or months time. If your child is confused by what happened or upset then chat to the teacher, find out the entire story and work with them to avoid this happening again.
Or move on.

seaweedandmarchingbands
I agree.

This year one of my students piped up (appropriate moment so not rude) "I don't get it, why are you so obsessed with our books?"
I pointed out that it's much easier for their revision to have neat books, with clear titles, with their corrections in another colour so they know what they haven't understood, that key extracts for the exam are clear when they flick through (Vs having to fold open and check every scrappy sheet), that getting them answering questions in full sentences Vs writing in a worksheet saves trees but also gives them a set of comprehensive notes, that the graphic organizers we use are a way of visualising thought processes etc.

They said "fair enough I'd never realised that much thought went into it"

Parent came in upset about how her child went home crying because we took his work,scrunched it up and threw it in the bin and he was made to start again.

Did the parent make an appointment or just have a word? Because actually, taking up the teacher’s time to complain that their child - wait for it - had to start again because the work was wrong, should be discouraged by senior leaders. You need a gatekeeper saying, “Teacher did the right thing and we support this 100%. Please be more mindful in future of how you are using the teacher’s time.”

They said "fair enough I'd never realised that much thought went into it"
grin

And also, if they’re not listening when you say, “Do this in green pen”, or “Leave half a page”, what else aren’t they listening to? It’s no coincidence that the students with neat, thorough, careful work come out with the best results, is it?

BelindasGleeTeam

That's a totally different situation though. The children knew what was expected of them. You listened to their reasons for not doing it and gave them detention when they didn't have a valid reason. As a parent I would be supportive of that. The teacher the OP describes didn't communicate with OPs child and i imagine the child felt a bit embarrassed. Theres no need for teachers to behave like this.

The teacher the OP describes didn't communicate with OPs child and i imagine the child felt a bit embarrassed. Theres no need for teachers to behave like this.

So how did the child know what he had got wrong?

Lots of irrelevant projection on this thread

OP please also be aware we haven't got full SeN info yet either. Only had files for kids with EHCPs.

Primaries haven't sent all the other info to my school so teacher may be operating with only partial (at best) knowledge of your child's SEN

And also, if they’re not listening when you say, “Do this in green pen”, or “Leave half a page”, what else aren’t they listening to? It’s no coincidence that the students with neat, thorough, careful work come out with the best results, is it?
That's very true.
I'm cautious on the neat= best approach as I've seen some wonderful neat books not access the higher marks due to being so slow over rainbow headings and some books with messier handwriting that are excellent.

But a similar principle of work completed and presented as directed tending to be students who listen and follow instructions I would be on board with.

I quite liked that student's honesty when they reflected. Last year one of my students in y11 revision said "you know you say the same things all the time", then another made a similar observation about a small piece of my teaching routines. I laughed and said anyone would think I could teach. To my amazement one said "so it's deliberate?" We had quite an interesting chat and they were genuinely amused by how much thought goes into seemingly insignificant parts of the lesson and classroom management and task design.

LolaSmiles

And that’s great if that discussion is a) rare or b) happening outside of a lesson. I do worry that the trend seems to be heading towards students and parents spending more time questioning what teachers are doing than they spend doing it. It’s great to be curious, but there comes a point where there’s a diminishing return and children should just be doing as asked.

Oh yes. I agree. That was a funny discussion towards the end of y11 in a revision session when students who had followed the instructions etc for the two years realised just how much thought goes into routines etc. It was quite funny really.

In a class room situation I've got no time for students arguing back and negotiating everything. Equally I've no time dealing with parents who'd sooner complain about the tiniest thing base on "my child said..."

If it happened as the OP suggested then it doesn't sound good to me, but I tend to reserve judgement on claims that out of nowhere staff suddenly do something and the student hasn't a clue why it's happened. 98/99% of the time it's never as black and white

So how did the child know what he had got wrong?

I read it as, teacher told child they hadn't left enough space, screwed up worksheet, threw worksheet in bin and gave another without any communication. If the child had done it wrong once and has SEN, then without explanation will possibly make the same mistake again. Pointless and possibly a little intimidating to a new Year 7.

What teachers should be modelling is the expectation of politeness and consideration that they want in their classroom.this is not "respect" towards the pupils, or as it is often phrased "respec" it is a level of good manners. Additionally this politeness should include treating children equally and making expectations and instructions clear and consistent

Pupils should be showing the same level of politeness towards teachers, I hesitate to call it respect, but should additionally include recognition that the teacher:
Is there to impart knowledge.
Is to be listened to
Gives instructions that should be followed
Has authority over particular behaviours that the child may or may not do in the classroom and during a lesson.

That isn’t what it says, Mon:

“Today in front of the class, the maths teacher screwed up his worksheet, threw it in the bin and simply handed him a new worksheet (with no verbal communication) as he'd made a minor mistake in not leaving enough space on the page.”

So the teacher said nothing to the child, but somehow the child knows what the problem was...

seaweedandmarchingbands

No, I read it as the new worksheet was given with no communication as that's how it's written.

simply handed him a new worksheet (with no verbal communication)

OP says her child has SEN that affects presentation so some advice on how to lay the work out better would have been helpful.

Anyway, OP has decided what she is going to do. Hope your son is ok OP.

But that doesn’t make sense, Mon. If the child didn’t understand the initial instruction (and that’s why he got the layout wrong), I can’t see how he would suddenly understand it so that he could go home and explain to mum why the teacher screwed up his work.

Anyway, for me this would be a non-issue.

In these situations I always find the story as told by the parent who has got it from the child unlikely... and wonder how the teacher would tell it.

In my experience... it is overwhelmingly children who are rude and disrespectful, not the other way around.

This is why I find it hard to take at face value...

There should be absolute certainly from a teacher that a child's work is not of standard due to deliberate laziness before they take that action.

Right, so taking the child's work and screwing it up is sometimes ok then?

There's a school like that around here. I've heard dreadful stories about how they treat children. There are 2 very popular academies here. Both are strict but one I've heard awful things about. A teacher asked a neighbour's child with SEN how he got in the school because he thought they were more selective, academically speaking. Another told him that he's dense and slow and when he was asked if he was aware of his SEN, said "yes, of course, but there is a limited time to dress after PE (3 mins) and he has to make it or perhaps he shouldn't be here". I have no idea why my neighbour hasn't done anything about it but other school mums there support her experiences.

Right, so taking the child's work and screwing it up is sometimes ok then?

It really is sometimes okay. A worksheet is a piece of paper with some questions on it, not their diary. It belongs to the school, not the child. They are given instructions as to what to do with it, and if they need to do it again because they got it wrong the first time, the only place for the old version is the bin. You can’t teach effectively on the basis that every incorrectly completed worksheet has to be guarded in perpetuity because it has a child’s sacred marks on it.

seaweedandmarchingbands

My interpretation of what happened is

Teacher told OPs child he didn't leave enough space.
Teacher screwed up worksheet and threw it in the bin.
Teacher gave a new worksheet to OPs child (who has SEN affecting presentation) without communicating to him how to lay it out better.
The child therefore knew the teacher screwed his work up because of a presentation problem and was able to tell his mum.

I have dyslexia and dyspraxia and used to have huge handwriting - would often deliberately make it larger to fit the available space and pretend I was finished. My teachers also threw my sheets away and made me rewrite them. Having mild SEN doesn’t mean your child isn’t naughty!

No, Mon, the OP literally said there was no verbal communication, which is what she objects to. You made the rest up.

But if the teacher did tell the child they hadn’t left enough space, again, I can’t see the issue. They communicated what was wrong and gave them another worksheet.

🤷🏻‍♀️

@LaBelleSauvage

Precisely!

Yet another thread in which the OP could solve the entire issue by just asking the teacher. It’s not rocket science.

P.s- love the name.

Right, so taking the child's work and screwing it up is sometimes ok then?

Honestly? If a pupil is being disrespectful enough to hand in scruffy, "no effort/thought has gone into this" work then I don't see why the teacher shouldn't throw it away and expect it to be done properly.

If you produced something at work that was far below the standard that was expected (and you were capable of) because you couldn't be bothered making the effort to do it properly would you expect your boss to nicely talk you through it, or just discard it and tell you to do it again?

I am not talking about the OP, here, by the ay. Just that some children try to get away with a minimum of effort and it isn't acceptable.