To think Sam Smith is being ridiculous?

[gc400]

For asking to be called they/them?

If you have someone in your family who is non binary its not hard to understand why you might have a different opinion than the majority.

Non-binary is self-important, navel-gazing non-sense. I don't like pink. I dislike football. I can fix car problems very easily. I play rugby. I have an unfortunate spending habit on handbags and skincare products. So I don't fit 'neatly' into any gender stereotype. But tell you what.. I am also binary because my chromosomes render me a woman/female. Mind = blown!

@VladmirsPoutine

This is the total crux of the issue

The mistake people like SS are making is not challenging the spectrum of masculinity, and instead creating new genders to bend around the solid, non moving mass that is Male Masculinity

YABU it really doesn't affect your life in any way. Get over it.

@NoSquirrels

As I said above to Vlad, when I say it’s not simply SS fault this is because someone else before has already created these new genders - SS isn’t the first or last to cross this path. It is unfair to hang just SS out to dry for following a path that was already there and not begin some huge never ending crusade against masculinity. He’s guilty of not challenging it, but it’s gone so far now - who could challenge it? I mean David Beckham wore a sarong in 1997 and if made front page news for all the wrong reasons. We seemed to have a metrosexual phase going on, which has given way to something skewed and leaning towards feminism than it will ever the spectrum of masculinity. SS will never be influential enough to take this on and make a change, and SS doesn’t want to. Wants to go into the gender neutral no mans land (excuse pun) and stay there

Look I have no issue with someone identifying as non binary but a plural pronoun for a singular person totally confuses me. Surely the English language should evolve into creating a pronoun (singular) that suits?
Any suggestions?

*femininity not feminism

Please don't deliberately misunderstand me.

Chocolate it's not deliberate misunderstanding - you said single sex toilets!

Pookiedo I dunno. Perhaps he phrased it poorly, indeed - but if you're going to talk about this stuff, because you've (presumably) thought a lot about this stuff, then perhaps you should be aware of how it comes across?

YABU it really doesn't affect your life in any way. Get over it.

Yes it does. Because if men can be women then the term 'woman' ceases to carry any meaning. Why bother having 'women's only spaces' or indeed grants for women who are under-represented in certain fields. Indeed why bother having refuges for women who've suffered domestic violence or indeed rape crisis centres?

If a so-called transwoman or gender-whatever-the-fuck commits a crime and we all have to pretend they are a woman it skews statistics. If a man can compete in woman's sporting competitions and wins by virtue of still having male biology/strength even if his name is Karen.. what of the women who've trained all their lives for this moment?!

If we can all be whatever we want then can I please identify as a white middle-class male and have the world do a mad dance around me to appease me!? No thought not. So yes. It does affect each and every single woman and girl.

NoSquirrels I agree the comments are sexist. I don't think they would even realise that. I don't think calling your self non-binary in itself is harmful to women.

TheAlternativeTentacle to be honest if they thought they were a car and we had to refer to them as brum it wouldn't bother me either. Each to their own. I don't get it, I don't think you can "feel" like a woman or man or non-binary but it doesn't seem like a big deal to me either to respect the choice. It's kind of like if a friend chooses to change their name. It's no skin off my nose to use their new name even if I prefer the first name. It's their choice.

I'm talking about toilets that aren't gendered where all genders use them

You said single sex toilets - get over it.

In short, do I want to hang SS out to dry? - no.

Do I think SS is a bit of an ignorant numpty? - yes.

Do I think "I'm misunderstood" is a defence against numpty-ism? - no.

Is gender regressive bullshit? - hell yes!

Yh i really meant non binary in the sense of 'liking a lot of stuff' -
Don't be dim @thealternativetentacle if you're going to comment at least make it relevant & intelligent rather than petty

@NoSquirrels agree, and although is 27 I don’t think it’s the most mature, worldly type of 27 that’s ever been. I think a new single, video and some outings to red carpets has given SS a push to ‘express themselves’ and with it has come a jumble of thoughts and feelings that hasn’t been too well considered

I think a childhood of bullying and feeling ostracised can make you quite insular and self obsessed to a point. I am friends with a girl who was horribly bullied at school and a bit like SS has done well for herself and has a good life. Still bitter and resentful though about the past, can’t quite let go. It is sad

Don't be dim @thealternativetentacle if you're going to comment at least make it relevant & intelligent rather than petty

What IS non-binary exactly, when every person on the planet is either male or female [binary]?

VladmirsPoutine SS is not a transwoman and would not be allowed access to women only spaces. If the law changed to allow that I would oppose it. Using the pronouns a person prefers is hardly the same as agreeing that they should go in women's prisons and refuges and take part in our sports.

i really meant non binary in the sense of 'liking a lot of stuff' - ???

@Sunshine93 I know that. But where do you think this eventually ends. Where do you draw the line? If I am to accept that he sometimes 'feels like a woman' and is 'non-binary'... and we all nod along and go with it. Where does that road lead us to? Think of the boiling frog analogy? I'm not giving so much as an inch as they're already stealing miles.

If you have someone in your family who is non binary

Everyone in my family is non binary. Just like everyone else in the entire world.

@boddtm Yeeesss! A word for 'them' this is a great idea. They have different words in Japan I believe for non binary - I can't think of a word right now but I totally agree! Yes.

And I will not be compelled to talk in a particular way about someone who isn’t in my presence. Sam Smith has no say how I wish to talk about him, just like anyone else in the world.

@VladmirsPoutine yes but that opinion you have right there = ignorant

@Chocolate50 Well so be it ... oddly enough I doubt I'm going to change my mind...

I looked at SS’s IG account based on comments on here, to see whether they were being disrespectful to women on a larger scale than the comments about women’s bodies

• Hot girl summer comment was clearly a parody of Miley Cyrus on holiday snogging on a yacht
• SS wore some boot heels to a red carpet do that are not particularly feminine in any way, also wore a suit, with a lace shirt. Much like Prince did regularly. Also some huge massive platforms, very S&M
• nail varnish on toes, no comment about women just the sea
• topless/modelling type poses, none of them in female clothes also no comments about women

GQ interview talks about how they have felt tortured in their mind, clearly not doing well with that

Interview with Jamilla Jamil was about body positivity hence some of the comments about women seem to be more focused on how they have felt they fit in neither gender and resented feeling feminine but it doesn’t expand on whether this was because of being bullied, but alludes to it

I think it’s ok to want to challenge this situation and push it back to men - there should be an accepted scale of masculinity that doesn’t have to encroach always on females. But I do not want to make SS the whipping boy of this situation and think it’s unfair to do so as has been done on 10 pages so far

@NoSquirrels - this was a comment that I responded to - when I said one of my family is non binary someone commented saying of course they are it just means you like a lot of stuff. I was being sarcastic - of course I didn't mean my family member 'likes a lit of stuff' i meant they don't feel either male or female. I don't know why someone would suggest it means that they like a lot of stuff. Fucking weird comment know. Think it was someone trying to be clever lol.