To ask why I feel sex work is a bit wrong?

[sweatyscruffy]

So I'm fully preparing to get flamed here!
Bf came round last night, I asked her how it was going as her university friends have moved in with her and her dh for a while. Bf's friend was doing webcam work with her dp previously and they were continuing to earn an absolute mint doing it (£30,000 in three months once!) I don't really see anything wrong with it as it's doing what they do anyway with a few cameras filming. The other girl is a medical professional, also part time escort. My bf was telling me about it as if it was the best thing ever. Apparently the agency only takes on clients earning over £50,000, and only contracts girls who know how to talk to and entertain very rich men. It involves a lot of trips to London and Europe, occasionally Dubai. Maybe I sound jealous but the whole thing made me a bit sad. Yes she's a grown woman, yes she knows what she's doing but imagine having to pretend that you find these old men interesting or sexually attractive?
She apparently specifies 40+ men only so she gets the really rich ones so I bet there's a good chance a lot of them are married, not that it's her fault they're choosing to sleep with prostitutes. I try so hard to be ok with it and think of it as feminist but I still feel it's a bit seedy. I'm trying so hard to not judge!

ALL work is coerced to a degree, in that if you dont go to work then you dont get paid.

If you accept that premise, then you also have to accept that 'sex work' is coerced, and coerced sex is rape.

"No, but that's not my point. My point is that paying for sex is paying for a service, not a body."

The semantics at play here are unreal.

I sometimes wish I could be in the type of headspace where theory trumps actual lived, physical reality.

Grimbles: No, that analogy doesn't fit, because many sex workers can and do reject clients who they think are dangerous or who are distasteful to them (of course, a lot of anti-sex work initiatives are making this harder to do, which endangers sex workers). Just as many people can decide to reject one job in favour of another.

Yes, some workers are coerced, or trafficked, but this happens in several different industries (trafficking for food production/agriculture/domestic work is rife). It's only sex work where the answer to the problem of trafficking and modern slavery is always 'destroy the whole industry.'

And much of the objections to sex work and sex workers still have roots in superstitious morality - women are only supposed to sell themselves to one man, and that's supposed to be a lifetime deal. Whereas the sex worker sells time and labour to many clients, and kicks them out at the end of the booked session.

I chose. Same with what we do during our time together, I have choices.

Until you don't. It's only a matter of time until someone wants to do something you don't. And the fact that you don't want to will be what gets them off.

ALL work is coerced to a degree, in that if you dont go to work then you dont get paid.

If you accept that premise, then you also have to accept that 'sex work' is coerced, and coerced sex is rape.

This means that all forms of paid work are slavery, which makes nonsense of the world order. This might appeal to the Bolsheviks,, but most people agree with the principle of trading labour for money.

Oh and you know prostitution is legal in this country?
It’s the pimping, brothels, kerb crawling and the street hookers that are illegal.

Not all hookers get fucked up the ass. Most of mine want oral. Unlike the woman in the toilets or the back of the club, I use a condom.

For someone who is thick, has no control over her body, and all the other stuff. Today I am doing oral only, I shall remain fully clothed and no touching of me is allowed. Why? Why not if men are daft enough to pay. I last offered to fuck last Thursday btw.

There are many forums that we use. Some of them have both hookers and johns on there. They see us as people same as we see them as people. Yes there are some opposite sex hating people. We have forums and apps to let each other know about the bad punters. Another one in place to help report for those who want assistance in reporting.

Agreement with exchanging labour isnt the point. Just because you accept that you have to do something because you enjoy getting the benefit, it doesn't remove the fact that you still HAVE to do X to get Y.

Otherwise why do we go to work?

Spingtrolls

@LiveInAHidingPlace

I don't think it's semantics at all. I think that your position that sex work = buying a body is harmful and dehumanising.

Nothing that a person chooses to do with their body deprives them of ownership over it. This isn't word play - it's a fundamental human right.

I appreciate that you're coming from a position of wanting to protect women and I respect that, but I find this point to be one that I cannot accept.

@OmniversalsTapdancingTadpole

Hope you feel nice and superior offering @Spingtrolls a biscuit... for goodness sakes 

@Spingtrolls thank you for this post it's good to have a perspective from the actual industry out there

I think a fair few posters on this thread despise the industry because they're subconsciously concerned about their husbands or don't like the idea there could be that option out there

While I have never used such services, it's naive beyond belief to think they won't stop existing - it's as old as biology and time

glass I mean, that wasn't even my point anyway. My point is that it's a stupid thing to argue about.

I care about women. Not about whether we can say a body is owned or not. Who cares how you phrase it? That's of no interest to me.

"I think a fair few posters on this thread despise the industry because they're subconsciously concerned about their husbands or don't like the idea there could be that option out there"

Of course, women can't just be opposed to something, they have to be opposed to it because they're jealous and worried that those women are out to steal their man

It baffles me that woman will argue so strongly for men’s right to buy them.

@Ahundred...

No, not them. The right to buy other women.

And the argument that it’s just like any other paid work is ludicrous. Every business sells something whether it’s a service or a product. The people who work for that business facilitate the sale of that service or product by contributing their labour in return for payment.

With sex work, the woman’s body IS the product.

GinDaddy, was for Spingtrolls dismissive comment about the invisable man link.

Yesterday 21:40Spingtrolls

Was waiting for someone to post the old invisible men link.

No, not them. The right to buy other women

Yes. An important distinction. It’s always empowering for other women when men can buy them for sexual gratification.

In the abstract it’s a very right-on thought experiment. But I wonder how many women would be willing to put their money where there mouth is and blow some bald, 60 year old domestic abuser for £25. I wonder how empowered that would make them feel.

And what about the right I have to do with my body as I wish?
I’m going to fuck anyway. Well apart from today lol. Why not get paid for something that I enjoy?
It doesn’t suit you, fair enough. There’s loads of jobs out there that I don’t like but I don’t bang on about the wrongs of that industry.

As for the 'you can refuse a client' argument. How many employees can turn up to work, decide they dont want to work?

Either you refuse and face being fired, or you just get on with it. It's a choice, but when refusing could let to violence and 'just getting on with it' means letting a man have sex that you dont want, that choice has a different consequence.

I was dismissive because the link is outdated. It’s been posted on here for at least the past 2 years and the most recent review was from 3 years ago.
Attitudes are changing all the time. Some of those regret their views 5+ years ago.
Of course there are arseholes. But arseholes are everywhere.
Look at the food industry- customers treating staff like shit, sexual contact, shouted at etc. Then the managers who can be even worse and side with the customer. Then the tips they worked their arses for being used to make up their already shitty wage. Piss the manager off and you get quiet shifts if your lucky.

I’m going to fuck anyway. Well apart from today lol. Why not get paid for something that I enjoy?

I don’t think it’s healthy, or true, that you enjoy being used for sex.

Asserting that you do is, in my view, a trauma response and a sign that you have normalised sexual abuse.

But I understand why you have to rationalise it in that way in order to keep doing it.

My problem is that men think they are entitled to buy women to fuck into.

How will my choice of refusing a client hinder my safety?

Typical scenario
You available?
Some chitchat (not disclosing this)
Nope cannot do.
Hang up phone

Although text, emails and dms are also used.

During that chitchat services are discussed. I make an informed choice about what I want to do. Or like today I am publicly advertising as doing bjs only.

I don’t work in a brothel where I am selected and have no say. I work for me. I don’t have people randomly knock on my door wanting serviced.

Why shouldn’t I enjoy sex?
Why is it that I am viewed as being used?
Why is it that you disbelieve that I do what I want?
There’s loads of things I don’t offer because I don’t want to.
There are guys who want to see me satisfied and want to do oral on me. Who is the used one then. Him for paying out £100+ or me for taking the cash and having an orgasm or two?

Spingtrolls I’m glad you’re in this thread. We’ve got a bunch of folk talking about something they haven’t lived so it’s good you can add to the debate.

Spingtrolls. We are not talking about you personally. If every prostitute was as well treated and had the same choices as you, then it would be a completely different conversation.

Surely you must understand that you are one of the 'lucky' ones?