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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

table manners

147 replies

hondagirl500 · 15/09/2019 17:25

Step son - Mike, and his wife, Jane, are divorced. One child, Belle. (I can't stand all the abbreviations, can't follow...). They don't live particularly close to us, but see Mike's mum Louise (my husbands ex) regularly.

Mike had Belle this weekend, and came to our house. Mike had to run some errands, so left Belle with me for a couple of hours. She is 8. Not a problem, we played games, did crafts. Later yesterday, Mike took Belle to a birthday party, and then back to ours for bed.

Which brings me to today, Sunday. My husband and Mike took Belle to see her great grandmother this morning, whilst I prepped Sunday lunch.
Roast beef, yorkies, veg, roasties….

Belle tried to cut her potatoes, but held the fork like a dagger (made a fist, fork held in it if that makes sense) and the knife like a pen. Obviously it wasn't working very well! I showed her how to hold them correctly. She tried, but went back to her way. Mike told me to leave her, it didn't matter. She was then sitting with her knee up on the chair, against the table - I asked her to sit properly. Again, glares from Mike. She got up as soon as she finished eating, but not having finished her meal. I told her that it was polite to 'ask to leave the table', not just get up. Mike told me 'we don't bother with that'.

So, AIBU to insist on table manners - sit properly, use the cutlery properly? TBH, I can't believe that her mother Jane, and Louise don't seem to enforce these?

OP posts:

Lazypuppy · 15/09/2019 17:27

You probably want to ask mumsnet to amend this and remove names if they are real.

YANBU to ask for table manners

BogglesGoggles · 15/09/2019 17:30

Clearly her parents are a bit shit but you can’t really insist on someone else’s child having basic manners. It’s fundamentally rude to demand anything from guests.

swingofthings · 15/09/2019 17:32

My SM insisted on table manners. She would constantly pick on me and would always find something that she classified as bad table manners. She took all the enjoyment of eating away and I just felt constantly anxious to remember all those manners.

What a waste of effort! I grew up and naturally learn table manners when it mattered. I however hate eating at the table and I think it might very well stemmed from associating being so with being anxious.

MIke is right, leave her alone.

Bluntness100 · 15/09/2019 17:34

I think I'd have handled it differently. Asked if she needed help with her cutlery, made it fun.

I certainly wouldn't have said she needed to ask to leave the table. Do you ask to leave the table. I also would not have cared about her having her knee up.

As she isn't your child I think you went too far here. Either you accept her at yours and whatshe entails. Or you speak to her parents and explain your issues, but you don't start on at a visitor in the manner you did and as said, it's even worse if you're asking her to do shit you don't do or insist everyone else does like ask to leave the table

Finfintytint · 15/09/2019 17:35

Although I agree with and have enforced similar rules, maybe they are facing bigger battles with this child and have decided that behaviour at the table is one they can let go. It would drive me potty but maybe there’s more afoot?

bridgetreilly · 15/09/2019 17:38

I think you can say 'In granny's house, this is what we do', especially about leaving the table without asking. For the cutlery, I would couch it as 'You'll find it much easier like this.' But also, she is not your daughter, and it's not your responsibility to insist on all these things.

Chitarra · 15/09/2019 17:39

Step back OP. This isn't your battle to fight.

forkfun · 15/09/2019 17:40

Not your place to teach her. Would you demand an adult hold their cutlery in a certain way at your table?
Chances are you made her feel awkward which is never conducive to learning new skills. Not her fault her parents haven't taught her.

Original poster

hondagirl500 · 15/09/2019 17:41

Not real names

OP posts:

recrudescence · 15/09/2019 17:44

Prepped? Can’t people just get things ready anymore?

lazylinguist · 15/09/2019 17:46

Fair enough that she should learn to use cutlery properly, but it's not your job to pick her up on it. As for the way she was sitting and the asking to leave the table, YABU and a bit fussy. My children are polite but they don't do the "Please may we leave the table" thing. They just know to stay at the table until people have finished eating. Feet on the table is a no no . But the way she was sitting sounds ok. Almost sounds as though you are looking for things to pick on tbh.

Kiwiinkits · 15/09/2019 17:48

I think it IS the role of grannies to teach this sort of thing actually. Kids are perfectly able to adjust to different rules in different houses - especially “special” manners in granny’s house!
My grandmother taught me “no elbows in the table” and it’s one of my memories of her.

notso · 15/09/2019 17:55

So much pointless information for someone who finds other people posts hard to follow!

My Mum and Dad have no qualms in pulling my kids up on their table manners if they need to.
I don't see a problem with it at all.

Chitarra · 15/09/2019 17:55

OP isn't the child's granny though

Benefitofthedoubt · 15/09/2019 17:58

Manners are important. Someone ought to help the poor girl out.

With my ILs it’s spelling and grammar. “Oh we’re not bothered with things like that” was the reply when I asked if the grandchildren were taking up their school’s offer of extra English and maths lessons (which I knew about because SIL couldn’t understand the letter they’d sent). I still read and write etc with the kids when I see them though. It’s not their fault their parents and grandparents don’t think education is important.

Original poster

hondagirl500 · 15/09/2019 17:59

I wasn't being mean or anything to her, I was trying to help. Manners are really important.
She hadn't finished her meal but just got up and left. I wasn't going to make her eat it, but did expect her to sit and wait for everyone. Her other Nanny - Louise- I can't imagine she lets her put her feet on the chairs!

OP posts:

Reallybadidea · 15/09/2019 17:59

Prepped? Can’t people just get things ready anymore?

This. And why do things need silly abbreviations? What's wrong with roast potatoes and Yorkshire puddings?

bridgetreilly · 15/09/2019 17:59

She's step-granny, which is near enough, imo.

Ginger1982 · 15/09/2019 18:02

It's meant to be fun at Granny's house not a place for strict rules!

However, that being said, her parents should be trying to teach her these things. It's not up to you.

Bluntness100 · 15/09/2019 18:05

I also don't think it's the place of a grand parent, step or otherwise, to teach a child manners against the parents wishes at a given time.

This girl is eight, her parents are divorced, she doesn't see the op regularly. Who knows what's going on.

When the father said "leave it" then the op should have respected that. Not kept on. And her question is now is she unreasonable to "insist" on it.

Personally for me the answer is yes. There are ways and means to handle things. And op. For all your insistence you weren't being mean to her, you definitely sound like you were having a go

Gentleness · 15/09/2019 18:07

Oh I hate the, "in granny's house we do/don't...". You might as well say, "Your parents haven't taught you right but I'll sort it out for them, incompetent fools."

I enforce table manners etc at home in private. If my kids are not following them out and about, and a stern look or quiet reminder doesn't work, we follow it up later, without the audience. They know that, and a small reminder usually works. Someone else sticking their nose in when I'm present and in charge is confusing. Of I'm not there, they know they respect the requests of the adult in charge (usual limitations apply).

If it's really bad, I'll take them into a different room for a reminder and calming down. But I won't put everyone through the drama of insisting it's dealt with there and then. My experience has been that if they are forgetting table manners it's due to excitement, shyness or something else not entirely in their control.

TheRLodger · 15/09/2019 18:10

I’m dyspraxic and as a child I had cutlery which had special grooves to help with how to handle cutlery.

However on the grand scheme of things I’m not sure how far up the list on social ills this falls. In America doesn’t everyone hold their cutlery like you describe. Is Belles dm American and I that’s where she picked the technique up from

possumgoddess · 15/09/2019 19:29

I insist on a certain level of table manners, and in fact other manners, at my house and my grandchildren understand that it is the way things are done at my house. But I am very careful to make sure that I am never contradicting what their parents say or do. I know that the children have been taught how to hold their knives and forks and so I reinforce that when they come to stay with me as well as reinforcing my own table manner requirements, such as not getting down from table until everyone has finished and laying the table properly. They aren't upset by my rules, they accept them and feel comfortable knowing exactly what is expected of them. I'm not as strict as this sounds, I just feel that knowing how to behave 'correctly' (and yes I do know that is subjective) will give them a good basis for the future. They can decide how they want to eat or behave for themselves when they are adult, but at least they will have the knowledge even if they choose to ignore it. It should make things easier for them.

Kdubs1981 · 15/09/2019 19:50

I would take great exception to you deciding what constitutes good manners in my child, especially when this is very subjective issue. I LOATHE children asking to leave the table. It is subservient and makes them sound like they are less important than the adults. I consider it the height of bad manners to expect different behaviour from different guests based on age. However, that is just my opinion and if that is what some parents teach their children, that's none of my business.

It is a parent's prerogative to decide what their children do and learn regarding manners. You trying to force this when SIL has said no is a form of control. YABU.

Bluntness100 · 15/09/2019 20:55

I consider it the height of bad manners to expect different behaviour from different guests based on age

I would agree with you here. I also find it appalling when kids are forced to behave in a subservient manner and ask to leave the table, when the adults are not.

In my view you simply say thank you that was lovely or something. But "please my I leave the table" is like something out the Victorian times.

Bottom line though is. The parent asked the op to leave it. She should have respected that and done so. If she felt strongly then taken a private conversation later with the parent. But you don't keep on at the kid with your random rules when the parent has asked you to stop.

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