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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

table manners

147 replies

hondagirl500 · 15/09/2019 17:25

Step son - Mike, and his wife, Jane, are divorced. One child, Belle. (I can't stand all the abbreviations, can't follow...). They don't live particularly close to us, but see Mike's mum Louise (my husbands ex) regularly.

Mike had Belle this weekend, and came to our house. Mike had to run some errands, so left Belle with me for a couple of hours. She is 8. Not a problem, we played games, did crafts. Later yesterday, Mike took Belle to a birthday party, and then back to ours for bed.

Which brings me to today, Sunday. My husband and Mike took Belle to see her great grandmother this morning, whilst I prepped Sunday lunch.
Roast beef, yorkies, veg, roasties….

Belle tried to cut her potatoes, but held the fork like a dagger (made a fist, fork held in it if that makes sense) and the knife like a pen. Obviously it wasn't working very well! I showed her how to hold them correctly. She tried, but went back to her way. Mike told me to leave her, it didn't matter. She was then sitting with her knee up on the chair, against the table - I asked her to sit properly. Again, glares from Mike. She got up as soon as she finished eating, but not having finished her meal. I told her that it was polite to 'ask to leave the table', not just get up. Mike told me 'we don't bother with that'.

So, AIBU to insist on table manners - sit properly, use the cutlery properly? TBH, I can't believe that her mother Jane, and Louise don't seem to enforce these?

OP posts:

Brefugee · 16/09/2019 06:39

we had a convo on here recently about how to hold cutlery and a couple of posters made the point that some firms where employees have to go out with customers socially invite them to a restaurant to check that they have good table manners. Worth learning anyway, but that was interesting.

As for asking to leave the table, children are very very good at learning where which rules apply. Asking to leave Grandma's table is perfectly normal.

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2019 06:41

“I would agree with you here. I also find it appalling when kids are forced to behave in a subservient manner and ask to leave the table, when the adults are not.”

But would you expect an adult to just get up and leave the table without explanation while other people are still eating?

AnalUnicorn · 16/09/2019 06:50

Like it or not, when Belle grows up and starts going out for meals with e.g. work colleagues, clients, dates etc who do themselves have table manners, then she may be perceived as oafish or rude. You may think that’s unfair, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Table manners are an important part of social etiquette.

Greyhound22 · 16/09/2019 07:05

YANBU

Table manners are important to me as they clearly are to you. I wouldn't make her ask to leave the table I think that's a bit old fashioned but I don't think there's anything wrong with asking her to sit and eat properly as long as you do it pleasantly and don't 'pick' on her.

Mike is happy for you to look after her when he needs it and use your house as a base he should improve his manners as well. I would never contradict someone like he has you I would say 'well in this house we do bother'.

StepAwayFromGoogle · 16/09/2019 07:12

YABVU. Mike is the child's parent, you aren't even her grandparent. If Mike and his wife have decided she can get up from the table without asking, she can get up from the table without asking.

swingofthings · 16/09/2019 07:12

Table manners are an important part of social etiquette.
And at 8y, she has plenty of time to learn them. It's not learning a language, it takes 5 minutes to know what to do. If she ever gets in the situation that it matters to her, she'll find out and act accordingly.

Also important to know that good table manners as we learn them are not international and interestingly, what is polite to do in the UK can be considered very rude in others.

HennyPennyHorror · 16/09/2019 07:23

I also loathe children asking to leave the table. "Please may I get down?" belongs with serviette and pardon.

Any child who is taught how to socialise properly will stay put until everyone is finished and sense the right moment to get up. Toddlers and very small children need to be engaged more directly of course...and distracted...entertained...so they want to stay.

StockTakeFucks · 16/09/2019 07:24

Meh I had (still do)awful table manners as a child when at home or in an environment I was really comfortable in. I still knew how to act and use those manners at other people's houses,restaurants etc.
I also ate differently at my two sets of grandparents. I didn't really see much of the ones where table manners were required.

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2019 07:32

“Any child who is taught how to socialise properly will stay put until everyone is finished and sense the right moment to get up”
How will they know that if it’s not explained to them? And what if the adults want to stay at the table and chat and drink coffee?

NearlyGranny · 16/09/2019 08:09

"I've finished, may I get down, please?" is easy enough for a child to say.

It establishes the end of the child's meal and limits the food to the table. One alternative is a child who hops up and down, carries half-eaten food to other parts of the house, calls on adults to come and do this or that while the adults are still at table and kicks off angrily when they return to find the table cleared and the meal over!

If parents are happy with this on their own home; fine. It is NBU to make clear to a visiting child that once they get down, their meal is over and they may not carry food and drinks into other parts of the house.

Sofas, people; carpets, etc.

Bluntness100 · 16/09/2019 08:14

Well that's a bit of an extreme alternative. 😂

And it's also easy to say, that was great thanks, just as an adult would.

GirlOnFireWaterPlease · 16/09/2019 08:17

Basic table manners IMO.

We teach our DC table manners (they are 7) and they know how to use cutlery and sit at the table, to not eat with their mouth open.

It would be poor parenting not to. How are they going to be able to eat with colleagues and on PIL/dates as adults if they sit there with no table manners chewing with their mouths open.

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2019 08:21

“And it's also easy to say, that was great thanks, just as an adult would.“
So as an adult, you would finish your meal, say that was great thanks and just get up and leave the table?

BeanBag7 · 16/09/2019 08:21

Not sure why we needed to hear about the whole plans for the weekend and what was in the dinner, but whatever.

I dont think YWBU to show her how to hold cutlery properly, to make it easier rather than for "manners" sake. But if she didnt want to or didn't find it easier, that's fine.

Expecting an 8 year old to sit properly at the table isn't unreasonable- I tell my 2 year old to sit up properly when she isn't- but at step grandma it probably isn't your place to mention it.

Asking to get down from the table is quite old fashioned and many families dont require it, I definitely wouldnt have commented.

SistersOfMerci · 16/09/2019 08:21

She's 8, not all kids learn about manners and social niceties at the same pace so I'd back off and let her parents deal with it.

What I did find amusing though in your overly frilly post was saying you don't like abbreviations such as dh/DS etc yet you put this Roast beef, yorkies, veg, roasties…. why? Why did you abbreviate these? Petty I know

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 16/09/2019 08:24

I'd say it's ask her not to put her feet on your furniture, not fine to correct her manners, that's her parents' job. However I agree with you in principle. Table manners matter to people who have them. I hate eating in the company of someone who doesn't.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 16/09/2019 08:25

I'd say it's fine to... sodding iPad auto deleting for me

funmummy48 · 16/09/2019 08:26

Thank you Op for taking the time to address this. I work in Primary School and we have all noticed the decline in ability of children to use cutlery over the last few years. We expect the little ones to need help but a lot of Year 5 & 6 children are still unable or unwilling to use cutlery and it’s generally because no one at home can be bothered to teach them. They’ll stab a whole chicken breast and eat it like a lollipop and the same with a chunk of broccoli. When we ask them what happens at home, a lot of them say that their parents give them a plate of food already cut up, so they just use their fork. 😳

BarbariansMum · 16/09/2019 08:30

If you are good enough to look after her whilst her dad runs errands, then yes you are good enough to correct her table manners. That said, a little correction goes a long way. Choose which issue is most important to you and focus on that.

Whoops75 · 16/09/2019 08:31

Do you have children OP

lavenderbluedilly · 16/09/2019 08:34

I loathe poor table manners, however I don’t try to instill good manners in visiting children. Instead I silently judge and am glad that my own DC behave so well at the table.

user1472709746 · 16/09/2019 08:40

@Bluntness100 I would definitely find it rude if I cooked a meal for an adult and they just got up and walked off to do something else once they had finished if others were still eating. It's not a rule reserved for kids. I cook for my DP most nights and if he finishes before me and wants to go and do something else he will always ask if I mind if he leaves the table. He mostly just sits and waits for me to finish because it's polite.

roisinagusniamh · 16/09/2019 08:49

I actually don't know what I would say or do in this situation but I do think children need to be taught how to use cuterly properly at age 8 or before as the hands are still developing.
I feel sorry for people who use cuterly the way you have described you SGD as they are indeed judged by the greater public.

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2019 08:53

I don’t expect anything from children In terms of table manners that I don’t also expect from adults.........

AE18 · 16/09/2019 09:01

I wouldn't consider the cutlery part a matter of manners - I was someone that was always told off for eating "wrong" or with just one hand which I found annoying as I wasn't struggling to eat at all or making a mess, I was just perceived to be doing it "wrong". If she was struggling to eat it would be fair enough to offer her tips but not to treat her like she was misbehaving for using the cutlery wrong, in my opinion.

The other things, however, I think are fair enough on your part. She is a guest in your house, and everybody has the right to request that feet aren't on their chairs. As for leaving the table, it's not just a matter of table matters, it's also about whether you are happy for her to wonder off into another room unsupervised. Not all children could be trusted not to do something you wouldn't want them to in this circumstances, so if you want her to stay with the adults, that is your right.

The part of this I find rudest is actually her dad shooting you dirty looks. I can't stand parents who get up in arms the second anything is said to their precious child, and unless you were shouting at her it doesn't sound like you were saying anything shocking, and certainly not anything that he should be thinking was a negative message to pass on to his child so worth scowling about. Is there some backstory about your relationship with him?

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