Sam Smith coming out as non-binary - help me understand!

[namechangeblah2019]

Name changed for this in case it gets messy.

I don't know if you've seen in the news but the singer Sam Smith came out as non-binary recently and has now asked that people use they/them pronouns with regard to them.

Absolutely not a problem with using those pronouns - I'm not a fan of theirs particularly so it's unlikely that they'll be cropping up that much in conversation anyway!

But - and I promise I am not being obtuse here, I am just old and slow but I am willing to learn - what exactly is non-binary? I just can't wrap my head around it. Surely the existence of non-binariness as a concept positions it as an alternative to an existing binary (i.e. men being macho and loving beer, women being all pink and girly and love wine) which I thought we all got over (or are meant to be getting over - sadly some people are very slow on the uptake!) anyway?

If I put on a pair of trousers or drink a pint or watch football I don't feel any less like a woman. I still feel like namechangeblah2019. How can you both refute the existence of a gender binary but also claim to be outside of it?

Please be kind to me - as I say I'm not implying they are wrong at all and if that is how they feel most comfortable being referred to then good on them and we should all respect that! I just want to learn as I currently feel like a right old fogey

I remain confused as to how my husband apparently failed to inherit the rugby playing gene despite having testicles. Perhaps one only inherits said gene if one is English?

Sex is a thing that exists. A great deal of the associated ideas about what's appropriate for each sex is cultural. One of the ways we can tell this is that it varies from one culture to another.

Sam Smith is a man who apparently doesn't see himself reflected in his culture's idea of what a man is. That unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that SS is not a man.

I’m confused. I’m female, I have a vagina. But I do probably more stereotypical boy stuff than girl stuff. What should I call myself?

So people accept that genes control brains meaning that that women are more likely to get Alzheimer’s but can’t accept that genes control brains meaning that women are born with (a subtle) more of a biological need to raise and care for a newborn. And that’s why MOST women go crazy over newborns

I think we are pushing some of what is. “Feminine” too far. However we can’t move away from the facts of life. Women have periods, give birth, breast feed. This does have an impact on you as a Female. We can’t get away from biology but we can break down the social constructs and just let people be people!

My only question is: who is Sam Smith?

Perhaps one only inherits said gene if one is English?

Fucking hell, you're brave!!

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Well he is a moon faced singer who has one of those whiney voices. Had a bit a while ago. Always mooching about saying how unhappy he is... now doing a Britney...

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

Sam Smith is a person who seems to announce that he's non binary every few months. Apparently he also sings.

All mammals are categorised into male and female, it's a simple matter of biology .
If we lived in a more progressive society where females were not penalised for this biology then there would be no need for all this hoo hah.
It should not be an issue if you are male or female, that's the real goal I think.
Sam Smith and all his faff is just highlighting the age old thinking that it's somehow bad or wrong to be one or the other, and he actually thinks he's being modern !

Interesting.
Having read the thread I've come to the conclusion that Sam Smith has done nothing to advance the dismissal of gender stereo types and everything to promote it.
Like has been stated the way to make progress is not to say:
" I like to dance therefore I must be female/non binary/insert any other word other than that which imply male! "
Rather to say;
"I like to dance and am a man."
Show others that it is acceptable for males to enjoy dancing, cooking, showing empathy etc etc all those ideas and activities traditionally out into the female bracket.
Likewise we don't want to hear women saying ;
"I enjoy sports and lounging around, therefore I must be a man."

It feels very regressive.
Do what you want to do. Be attracted to men or women.
Stop with this nonbinary crap.
It's doing no favours to anybody.
"They" is plural, no one person is a they.

No I think that sex influenced our gender. I do not believe that you can separate the two fully.

I want to embrace aspects of my gender stereotype if thats what you want to call it. I want female only areas for example. And soon Sam smiths of the world will make that impossible.

@Sooverthemill is your Google broken?

Emily we crossed posts with very similar opinions !

BUT HOW without a vagina?

According to a certain someone I must have a secret vagina, i’ll try and find it.

I have little desire to embrace gender stereotypes but want to retain single sex areas because women need those for privacy and safety. Whether or not we choose to touch up our eyeliner while in those spaces makes very little difference to our need for them.

I think the pronoun stuff might come more naturally to teenagers. One of mine has just started uni, text last night, "another person has turned up and they seem ok".
If the majority of kids do routinely refer to each other in gender neutral terms then maybe it wont reinforce gender stereotypes?

he is... now doing a Britney

That’s low . Whatever happened to Britney was horrible . Her dad was so abusive that she has allowed her ex to Have full custody of her boys as it’s the only Way to keep them away from her dad . Every update I read on her gives me chills

Her story is a tragedy in my view and it’s very unkind to throw her mental illness into this discussion

I read the headline and expected a whole gang of Sam Smiths rather than just 1 even though it would have meant the sentence not being grammatically correct.

Soon it will become “insert whatever”-phobic to have female only spaces. Because Sam smiths of the world will demand access

@Trimummy3 you want female only spaces for your sex though, not gender. Because otherwise non-binaries who may be of male sex will be in your female spaces.

I don’t mean to be rude but what on earth are you on about with the newborn thing? My DH must have a female brain in that case as he’s always been far more nurturing and gushy with babies than I.

Some enterprising person is going to find this thread and produce a Marie Kondo style book about finding your bliss via folding towels in a minimalist way using only your fanjo.

It’s all very well going along with this but it doesn’t work in a medical setting does it.