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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask you who started the Troubles in the North of Ireland?

591 replies

1FineDane · 11/09/2019 13:23

If you watch this new BBC documentary, what is your answer?
I know British people think the IRA started the whole shit, but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

I hope you watch it to realise what history there is in Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0008c47/spotlight-spotlight-on-the-troubles-a-secret-history-episode-1

OP posts:
BoycottBoycott · 13/09/2019 16:59

It is also irritating that Ireland is being used as a safety valve - for example, see how JR-Moggs has moved so much of his business to Dublin, and then witness the swathes of British people (including self-avowed Brexiteers as well as Remainers) who have clogged up the system applying for Irish passports

The only people getting Irish passports are Irish citizens. If you are not happy about that you need to persuade the Irish government to change its citizenship laws.

angell84 · 14/09/2019 20:42

@Voila212 gotta hate the bullies eh!

Yes, racism is so stupid in general. I also hate hearing about Irish people being bullied in England. I have to say- being half English and Half Irish, I have gotten bullied in both countries. Which shows you how stupid it is! I am not English enough for some English people , and I am not Irish enough for some Irish people.

Wouldn't it be great if there was no concept of nationality. Identifying as being from one country, is causing alot of hatred between the countries. We are from the WORLD

I could make it easier for myself and go and live in Eastern Europe, where I lived for a while, and people never cared where I was from.
I always seem to get hate from some-one if I am in England or Ireland. but I am not ashamed of who I am, and I am in England at the moment.

#ihateracism

Voila212 · 14/09/2019 21:42

I'm sorry to hear that Angel, bullying is horrible and can have a deep impact on your life many years after it happens. It's amazing that I can remember the faces of my bullies but none of my other classmates in that year. It must have being horrible to be picked on on both sides because of your nationality. It shouldn't have mattered and it's completely unfair. I was never picked on for my nationality but was bullied because I was quiet. It's only as I got older that I realised that it wasn't my fault, bullies will pick on you for whatever reason and it's because they are just nasty people. Be proud of you mixed nationality and feck the haters. My cousins have an English father and an Irish mother and as far as I can see they have the best of both cultures.😊

angell84 · 14/09/2019 21:54

Hey @voila212 thanks for sharing that. I am also sorry to hear that you got bullied. Yeah it can be really damaging. Remember - what the bully thinks , has absolutely nothing to do with the person being bullied.

If it helps you in anyway. I always think of this story.
There is a woman called Lauren Paul. She is married to the guy that was in Breaking bad. If you look her up: she is incredibly beautiful, and I have heard her give talks - she is a nice person too. And yet she was bullied so badly in school that she had no friends, and attempted suicide.

www.google.ie/amp/s/people.com/celebrity/lauren-paul-i-was-bullied-to-brink-of-suicide-as-a-kid/amp/

It just really emphasises that what a bully may tell you that you are, has absolutely NOTHING to do with who you really are.

Always see yourself through your own lens. Not through some one else's lens.

That was an interesting chat about bullyingn. I hope you see that you are great, and they were wrong

Original poster
1FineDane · 14/09/2019 22:14

@angell84 I'm not bullying you, but you managed to totally me-rail a thread........... I told you to start your own thread on it.
Anyway........

OP posts:
angell84 · 14/09/2019 22:58

@1finedane I don't really care , as it helped some one else talk about their bullying experience. Which is important.

Anyway. We have finished now. So your main topic is still here.

DioneTheDiabolist · 15/09/2019 11:06

OP ignore the MOPE merailer. You get them all over threads like this, and actual racism. I look forward to you starting a new thread for the next programme.Flowers

Angel, FYI, being half English and half Irish doesnt mean you're mixed race.😂

malificent7 · 15/09/2019 11:28

I think ot is natural for humans to want people to 'get off their land' if they have been invaded. The English are so entitled.

malificent7 · 15/09/2019 11:28

It sorry..

Xenia · 15/09/2019 11:32

Yes as mentioned above the Normans caused a fair bit of the later trouble - that's the French. Perhaps the Englisn and Irish could agree to blame the French!

malificent7 · 15/09/2019 11:33

It boils my piss the way the English treat everyone...and im English. The Falklands fiasco too...just give them back! Not gonna happen i guess. Human nature to invade unfortunately.

isabellerossignol · 15/09/2019 11:40

I remember when I was studying Irish history for A level asking why it was that Ireland never looked over the sea to England, or anywhere else, and thought 'ooh, we'll help ourselves to some of that...'

Obviously by the time in history that we're talking about here, there was a massive power difference so they couldn't have even if they wanted to. But they never even seemed to want to, even in earlier times. Although they did love a good interprovincial war, so maybe they were too busy with that.

malificent7 · 15/09/2019 11:42

I urge you to read 'A modest proposal'. Forgotten the author but satire directed at greedyandlords in Ireland.

malificent7 · 15/09/2019 11:43

Johnathon Swift wrote it.

Rapidmama · 15/09/2019 11:48

My DF was a soldier and did numerous tours of NI. We were absolutely brought up to believe the Irish were the worst people ever (and the blacks and the gays Hmm).

My DF would tell us all the stories about Irish mothers allowing their kids to spit on the soldiers, throw bricks at them etc. As a kid I never questioned it.

Obviously I am no contact with my DF now I’m an adult and can actually read Angry

EmeraldShamrock · 15/09/2019 13:22

@1FineDane I just watched it on YouTube. It definitely stirred up lots of emotions watching it.
NI had a real chance for change in the 60's.
Ian paisley snr was a disgusting man he makes Trump seem like a teddy bear in comparison. Sad

Fatshedra · 15/09/2019 13:58

I doubt the Falkland islanders think the war was a fiasco. .

I'm scottish and don't know the Irish history (though will watch the prog). But I do know that Scottish history is extremely complicated, I have read about the Covenanters on several occasions but still can't get my head round it. And it wasn't nasty english beating poor wee scots, instead according to whether you were Catholic or protestant you fought against those of the other religion whether they were english, from the highlands, or mercenaries from wherever. Or if you were poor you fought for whoever paid you.
Things get simplified so you get comments like why were the English so cruel . When it is never that simple and a lot of it is religious beliefs based. So in fact many people believed they were doing God's work and /or spreading his good word. Though from a modern perspective that is hard to comprehend.

EmeraldShamrock · 15/09/2019 14:13

why were the English so cruel
Terrible things happened on both sides. MIL a nationalist was very fond of some of the English soldiers when they lost their home in the 70's a young soldier brought them blankets pots and pans. They were young boys.
Obviously the English sent protestants to settle in NI. I dont consider unionist to be English they're NI protestants, lots full of hate either a superior complex.
I hope it won't return to the troubles but Brexit has seriously brought lots of issues back to the fore front.
The DUP in Westminster is a serious feck up, what was TM thinking, what was she showing the world.

angell84 · 15/09/2019 14:53

I know I am coming at this from my own point of pain, of having heard some Irish people talk terribly about English people. And being told that I was an English murdering bastard. That really hurt me - because I did nothing.

But every viewpoint is important on here.

I have also witnessed TERRIBLE racism in ireland. I have seen many Irish people treating Polish people as second class citizens. I have seen some Irish peopele being just as cruel to Polish people, as some English people were to Irish people on the past.

Polish people that I know in Ireland, have often talked to me about being looked over for jobs and being treated as second class citizens.

How is that any different?

There is also an article in the Irish times about Africans being discriminated against in the Irish workplace,
"the Economic and Social Research Institute warned that African nationals are now “the most disadvantaged” group in the Irish labour market, with far higher joblessness"

angell84 · 15/09/2019 14:56

I think it is easy to see when it was done to you, - it was wrong.

Bit it is harder to see it as wrong , when Ireland as a country - are also keepig people down, and are also discriminating against them.

DioneTheDiabolist · 15/09/2019 14:57

Your experience of bullying is not about the start of the Troubles in NI.
Racism in 21st century RoI is not about the start of the Troubles in NI.
This thread is about the start of the Troubles in NI.

Start your own thread and stop derailing this one Angel.

HeronLanyon · 15/09/2019 15:07

Don’t we need to go back at least to 14th 15th century and then the English plantations and Dublin pale etc ???

EmeraldShamrock · 15/09/2019 15:14

@angell84 Yes angel you mentioned that on the previous page, all Irish are racist as per you and your polish friends.
I didnt respond to your post, not sure why you are derailing again.
IME Irish people in general are not racist, the polish are a huge part of the community as most EE are, along with lots of other cultures. Infact it is a bit rich to claim Irish are racist against immigrants considering Brexit.
Another note some not all polish people are far more racist towards dark skin.
How many different cultures live in Poland? I doubt many.

Paintedmaypole · 15/09/2019 15:14

The troubles in Northern Ireland have long complicated historical roots back to the middle ages. The British protestant ruling class first oppressed Catholics in England following the "glorious revolution" and then after the battle of the Boyne proceeded to oppress the Irish. Then ordinary English and Scottish people were planted in N Ireland to increase loyalty to the British crown. Then the mess was sorted out by dividing Ireland. The British establishment certainly created a situation of resentment, unfairness and ultimately violence. It was not caused by "the English" as a whole ie a miner from Wigan, a tenant farmer from Norfolk or a Trawlerman from Hull. Just as "The English" as a whole aren't responsible for Brexit. I am sure many English people were whipped up to racism against the Irish in the same way as they are whipped up against immigration now

EmeraldShamrock · 15/09/2019 15:16

Don’t we need to go back at least to 14th 15th century and then the English plantations and Dublin pale etc ???

No. As the troubles were in NI many years after plantation.
The 1916 rising was the result of years of English rule.
The troubles in NI started over civil rights.