AIBU to ask you who started the Troubles in the North of Ireland?

[1FineDane]

If you watch this new BBC documentary, what is your answer?
I know British people think the IRA started the whole shit, but this is a BBC documentary and fairly unbiased.

I hope you watch it to realise what history there is in Northern Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0008c47/spotlight-spotlight-on-the-troubles-a-secret-history-episode-1

And to someone who said I was bullied at school. It wasnt just in school. I think it is important to point out that English people are abused in lots of different places in Ireland. Very cruelly.

I will never forget the Irish Landlord saying to my Irish mother in Ireland, that he didn't want English brats (me and my brother) living in his house.

I think racism in Ireland is reducing, partly because being woke there is extremely fashionable, more so than here. But English people are excluded from that because they’re fair game to SJWs.

Angel, this is not a thread about racism in Ireland in the 90s? 00s?. It's a thread about who started the Troubles.

To get back to the actual subject of the thread, I watched the documentary and thought it was very good.

@angell84 I am sorry you were bullied here.
There are xenophobic and racist people in all country's.
Can someone upload this programme to YouTube the BBC knows I am in Ireland I can't watch it

I'd upload it if I knew how (or is that illegal?).
It's long btw - 86 mins I think.

I'm surprised how heavily Martin McGuinness featured. He ran for the Irish presidency about 15 years ago. I remember Vincent Brown tearing him to shreds over membership of the IRA which he flat out denied if I remember correctly. The footage on this programme would seem to suggest otherwise!

One who hasn't featured so far is Gerry Adams.... I wonder if he will in further episodes. He has long been believed by some to have been a leader within the IRA. Again, I think he has flat out denied that.

I''d also be interested to hear what Sinn Féin's views are on the documentary!

If anyone is starting from any confusion about whether MM and GA were in the IRA, then I would suggest a documentary is a good place to start.
OP's tone is bullying and hectoring throughout this thread and I think she forgets starting a thread doesn't actually mean you own it.

I don't know if it is illegal.
People often upload casualty and other BBC programmes.

I don't think MM ever denied being in the IRA. He spoke quite openly about some of it.

And with GA, he has always denied it but I don't think many people believe him because its not as if it was just an accusation made by the British; there are plenty of people within the IRA, and people within his own community who say the same.

I don't think MM ever denied being in the IRA. He spoke quite openly about some of it.

Oh yes he did!!

It was started by rich people who used war and conquest to increase their power and wealth: kings, queens, wealthy industrialists. It started before people like us had the right to vote, at a time when hanging, beheading and torture were commonplace.

OP's tone is bullying and hectoring throughout this thread and I think she forgets starting a thread doesn't actually mean you own it.

WTF?

If someone tells me how to, I'll upload the episode to youtube for you.

@angell84 - And my point is very relevant - any English people in Ireland, receive huge levels of hatred.

I'm not denying your experience but claiming any English people in Ireland receive huge levels of hatred is just wrong. I'm in my mid 50's so grew up in the 70's/80's. I had a couple of English friends, both of whom were very popular in school. As they got older, there was the occasional comment, mainly from people who didn't know them but generally, being English was not an issue for them. I have English friends today who very much enjoy living in Ireland, just as I have Irish friends who very much enjoy living in England.

My parents lived in England in the 60's. They experienced an awful lot of anti-Irish sentiment, including being denied accommodation because they were Irish. However, if they're talking about their time in England they generally focus on the nice people they met and became friends with.

I spent time in England in both the 80's and the 90's. I experienced plenty of anti-Irish sentiment and comments. But I also met, and became friends with, some lovely English people.

There are nasty people everywhere who will pick on a difference as a focus for bullying. I think your claims that all English people receive hatred in Ireland is part of the problem you are describing. Despite being half-Irish, you are being xenophobic towards the Irish. Given your experience, that is probably to be expected.

Wrt your claim that we blame current English people for the sins of the past, again, I don't think that is the case. However, if an English person is supporting what was done by the UK or by British people (and there's plenty of it in the very recent past), then yes, it is acceptable to lay some blame at their feet. Nobody is blaming current English people for the plantations or the famine. However, an English person who thinks soldiers should not be prosecuted for bloody Sunday or other murders? They yes, they take a portion of the blame.

Angel84 your swathing generalisation IS NOT the experience of many English people I know living in Ireland, including my own mother!

There's 300,000 British born people in Ireland. Is not that unusual anymore.

There's small-mindedness everywhere, and claiming that all Irish are racist is only shining a light on your own myopia.

Angel I'm sorry you were bullied but I think comparing being bullied for being a English person in Ireland to a country being invaded, abused, enslaved, murdered and robbed for centuries is ridiculous. It's like saying well 'I suffered bullying because I was English so there, that's the same as what the English did to Ireland '. I think it is awful that you suffered any bullying, it also happened to many Irish person living in Britain, in fact they weren't allowed into some places such as shops and guest houses. Unfortunately circumstances will cause people to have a certain view point of different nationalities. It isn't right but it happens. No one is saying that there isn't racism in Ireland, there is but show me a country where there is none.

As for there being more media about the IRA target then loyalist groups, well I think that was because the bombings affected the mainland of the UK. Any other bombings were over there so didn't get as much media coverage.
If course the current British people arent to blame for Ireland's past but Brexit has brought up a lot of anti Irish sentiment again, comments I've read on Facebook have being very xenophobic towards the Irish and proved that many British people including those in government still hold a imperalistic view when it comes to Ireland.

@viola212 really my pont is this:

I see all the horrible things that the U.K. have done to Ireland in the past. I know all about it. It is horrible.

Do I feel it is in anway related to me : no. Do I feel it is anything to do with me - no.

How does being born in the same Geographical location, make me have anything to do with what some-one did in the past? There is no link whatsoever. Those people were not related to me, I do not share the same views as them.

In the same way as a young teenage girl in Germany, has nothing to do with what a Nazi did 80 years ago. Why does what a man did 80 years ago - have anything to do with her. It doesn't. And that is what I used to say to certain people in Ireland, I said " I don't hate current German people, because of what some German people did in World war 2". It makes no sense

We really need to try to heal the wounds to move forward. I am well aware of all the intricacies. Maybe the UK government needs to ask Ireland- what it would like in recognition of wrongdoings in the past. A public apology? A recognition of the famine as genocide?

I would very like relations to be inproved between the two countries. All the hate, bot sides (yes UK started it), but the hate both sides now is causing many people alot of pain. Is there anyway to heal it, I wonder

I'm sorry for anyone who was bullied, as I was for being Irish in England and as my family were, such as a dc being pelted with potatoes in school, taunts about being thick/ignorant/religious/superstitious/under-developed/beggars/alcoholics. This was in the last 10 years.

Brexit is deeply worrying because of the situation with the peace process, and irritating because of the lack of thought and such strong evidence about the lack of education British people receive about their own history including Irish history.

It is also irritating that Ireland is being used as a safety valve - for example, see how JR-Moggs has moved so much of his business to Dublin, and then witness the swathes of British people (including self-avowed Brexiteers as well as Remainers) who have clogged up the system applying for Irish passports.

Finally, the cavalier way some (esp Tory) politicians talk about the impact of Brexit on Ireland is just appalling.

This sign for example 🙄

Oh I agree Angel but there are bullies everywhere in life and they will pick out what makes you stand out to them. I was bullied in school, you were bullied because of your accent, I was bullied because I wore glasses and wore a patch on one eye. That's what bullies do they pick on your differences. No one is to blame for the countries past but there will be people who will slag off and make digs. I have often seen posts about Nazi Germany on some Brexit posts. These type of people will always be there.
Honestly i think relations between the UK and Ireland had being very good until recent years. I never thought that queen Elizabeth would ever visit in my lifetime but she did and got a great welcome. The majority of people in Ireland have no issue with The Uk especially in the last few decades, we have moved on. Sadly though I think Brexit has brought back a lot of bad feeling, hopefully when it's sorted things will calm down but I don't know. Northern Ireland has relative peace and people seemed to co exist happily together. That was thanks to the GFA, it does upset me to see some people dismiss the Troubles and the hard earned peace. They see it as an Irish problem.
God obligation that sounds horrendous, I didn't think things like that were still going on.😮

It is also irritating that Ireland is being used as a safety valve - for example, see how JR-Moggs has moved so much of his business to Dublin, and then witness the swathes of British people (including self-avowed Brexiteers as well as Remainers) who have clogged up the system applying for Irish passports

I agree with your first point but the only people who can get an Irish passport are those entitled to them. The Irish government isn't giving them out to just anyone.

the cavalier way some (esp Tory) politicians talk about the impact of Brexit on Ireland is just appalling

Missed this in your post - and yes! But that's Tories (and BXPers) for you. They have zero respect for anyone who isn't wealthy, too, hence why I said on another thread on here that anyone who isn't wealthy who votes Tory is voting for their own demise.

berlinbabylon I know - but Brexiteers applying for Irish passports because of the mess they've created is pretty annoying. I think in general Irish politicians and the Irish public have taken the Brexit thing fairly well. I think if the shoe was on the other foot (i.e. an Irish vote that would fuck things up for the British) then there'd be outcry in the UK,