To cancelled DD7’s trip to build a bear with grandparents

[SpikyButt]

Sorry, long and rambly.

My DD2 is turning 7 in a few weeks.

She is extremely challenging at the moment.
Refusing to do as asked, from getting up in the morning, to getting dressed, brushing teeth, getting out of the house without a strop. She attacks her sister, who isn’t blameless either, we’ve had problems with her hurting other kids at school, her behaviour at school isn’t terrible but does ‘require improvement’. She gets angry and shouts a lot when asked to do things, just getting her to write a few sentences for her homework today was a couple of hours of screaming and crying despite my staying completely calm (which I often fail at). But the main issue concerning this AIBU is her constant destroying of toys and defacing other people’s property.

She cuts all the hair off her dolls, draws all over dolls, teddies, furniture in her room, pulls arms off dolls Etc. She likes to make potions and so several times I’ve caught her having taken toiletries from the bathroom and made a god awful mess in her bed. She draws on her sheets, her body, she once trimmed her eyelashes with scissors.

I know, I should keep everything out of her reach but she s crafty and finds and hides things. And do I really have to lock up all my toiletries from a nearly 7 year old?!

Anyway, my parents took my older to daughter to the Build a Bear Workshop for her 7th birthday, spent about £150 on her, then extra in the following weeks. They want to do the same for DD2.

We have talked about it a few times over the last few months and I had made it clear that I didn’t think it was a good idea, as she destroys or defaces pretty much ALL of her toys, plus she refuses to tidy up her toys so I periodically do a sweep and remove things. She doesn’t understand the value of things, or possible just doesn’t give a damn, isn’t it sending the wrong message?
Though I guess us buying her birthday presents is the same?

Yesterday my mum asked when would be a good time to take her to Build a Bear.
I said I thought we’d decided that wasn’t a good idea while she’s still destroying everything.
She said, “oh I know, but it’s not fair, she knows now”
So why did you say anything, then?! I hadn’t mentioned it at all to her.

I’m really quite annoyed, why does it have to be THIS birthday, why not next birthday when she’s hopefully better? DD2 has NO IDEA when her sister went, she didn’t even care much about the damn bear til my mum told her recently.
I realise I’m probably being petty and controlling but it annoys me that they just decided amongst themselves after we spoke about it.

This evening, after a long battle trying to get her to brush her teeth and stop annoying her sister, I came so close to threatening to cancel Build a Bear.

That’s another thing that my mum does, though.

She has before threatened DD with removing of outings that have nothing at all to do with her, and that she has no right to interfere with, such as a Rainbow’s trip and a Birthday party.
If I threaten something, I always follow through, these were things she had no control over and I would be left to carry out the ‘punishment’ on her behalf, making me the bad guy, again, because she used that to try to control her.

So, while I feel that’d be a horrible thing to do, my Mum threatens her with things she has no business with so why shouldn’t I? Especially after I told her no in the first bloody place?!

Meh. I can see I’m being petty, and it’s very unlikely I would cancel the trip unless DD2 did something especially bad, I’m just annoyed, mostly at my mother who I apparently have unresolved issues with that I never seem to be able to place.

But who is BU here?
Her for trying to do something nice for her granddaughter despite me telling her to wait a year,
Or me for being annoyed and potentially cancelling it if DD keeps being imbloodypossible?

My dd does all the things your dd does but my dd has a diagnosis of ASD. I feel your pain as I can’t buy my daughter anything nice, she had several MLP build a bears and one day decided to cut their hair and draw all over them, we no longer go to build a bear as it’s just a waste of money. We have removed most of her toys from her room and she now just has pen and paper in there, any other arts and crafts are done downstairs at the table. We have to keep the upstairs bathroom locked so she can’t get the shower gel, shampoo etc..

I would be worried about your dd’s behaviour, at 7 a child should know not to do these things unless there’s more going on (like my dd). I do agree that it’s not worth taking her to build a bear.

Some children just like messing around. How do you think artists (for instance) get started?

I'm genuinely concerned about posters saying the child's behaviour doesn't sound typical. She sounds very typical to me.

Large number of people say it isn’t. Lone voice says it is. What does that tell you?

There may be a neurological issue, there may not. But by no yardstick can this behaviour be described as typical.

There's no harm in double checking op.
Good luck.
I've wondered if my dd has issues or is just awkward.

Some dd are very sensitive.

Re dolls, it's very common, cutting hair and drawing on them.. It's still play. Just get cheap dolls from charity for it. As pp said direct potions into exiting box...

OP, I get where you are coming from, your reasons for cancelling the trip are sound. If she doesn’t look after her toys, she doesn’t get new ones. It’s a natural consequence and a good thing to do.

Is there an option that your mum can still treat for the birthday but in a way that doesn’t involve new toys? Maybe a trip to the cinema with friends.

And, yes, worth a discussion with professionals about her behaviour. It sounds challenging for you all and should be investigated.

Love as pp said its about the experience of build a bear more than the day and infact actually making the bear may even cause her to respect it more bwxssue she saw it made.

Love, why can't you buy cheap toys for your daughter and let her play with them as she wants?

Well, you've had a lot of advice. Ive skimmed it and the poster suggesting lush build a bath bomb has had a brilliant idea there. Its building stuff, its not meant to last and it doesnt cost a lot.

Large number of people say it isn’t. Lone voice says it is. What does that tell you?

Perhaps the lone voice comes from a family that's more accepting of messing around?

Out of interest how does build bear cost 200 quid?

OP it must be shocking to have so many people suggest ASD to you and of course she might not be - none of us know or can diagnose her over the internet. Nevertheless, it's the first thing I thought reading your OP as well.

It's difficult when you're in it to be objective about her behaviour. When you say she can be lovely when she wants to be that could also be 'she's lovely when she's not feeling anxious and there's no demands on her'. Do you see what I mean?

I would definitely speak to school and also ask your GP for a referral to a paediatrician.

It's really hard work having such a challenging child OP, I feel you.

I'd probably let her do Build a Bear.

Juells I totally agree on messing around.
Totally agree.
It's their toys and they can do what they want with them.

However its not the toys in isolation.
It's the toys + behaviour + hitting + school etc. That's where the worry might be.

The problem is, testing and possibly diagnosis is not a magic bullet. Children, either with or without a spectrum disorder, need parenting. You are admitting you fail at being calm, you don’t keep stuff locked away from her, you let your mother over-ride you and have far too much input, and you’ve given up making her clean up her bed. I’m honestly not being awful, because it sounds like your daughter is very hard work, but how do you think her having (for instance) ASD is going to change your approach? She’s a child and she can’t bring herself up. She needs consistency from you.

(And before anyone calls me out for being a “perfect parent”, I had to ask for help before my eldest was even 2).

I’ve NRTFT but the parts I have, seem to offer some really good advice. If you book an appointment with your GP, it may be prudent to ask if you could have a double appointment so you don’t feel rushed. I think you will probably find you have more to say than you think. I would also recommend going with another adult, who can stay outside with DD so you don’t have to speak in front of her. Talking about the negative behaviours in front of her will not help her self esteem, and she can see the GP for the bits she is needed for.

If her constantly defacing items and having no appreciation for the value of things is a consistent problem, then I would cancel the build a bear trip regardless of whether she did something that needed punishing. Don't make it about a separate issue - tell her you can't afford to keep buying her things until she learns to start taking care of them. I would also stop buying her other toys etc until she learns that lesson.

I'd take her out for something that is an experience on her birthday, but not a physical item. Hopefully she will pick up on it and you can explain why, after some time of not being bought things I expect it will sink in that she needs to look after them when she is.

@Autumnintheair

However its not the toys in isolation.
It's the toys + behaviour + hitting + school etc. That's where the worry might be.

Yes, I can see when you put it like that. I was thinking the bad behaviour might be from frustration if she was having problems in school, but I am projecting.

let her build a bear.step by step photo book it.reitteratepicture by picture how much fun she has,how special her bear she made her own self is and how everything she chooses is a special thing.give her the book and the bear. she is demanding your time and reassurance.the only way she knows how

If she has PDA, which can present strongly in ASD when the child is struggling a lot, this would be the worst thing you could do.

Having or thinking you might be able to have something you prize highly brings with it a lot of pressure. It's hard to get your head round this, but the more precious something is, the greater the worry of losing or destroying it can be. The solution to this can be to destroy it yourself to remove that pressure.

Worrying that you won't manage to earn a reward or that something precious to you might be damaged is more stressful than sabotaging the reward or destroying the object and being subject to everyone's disappointment and disapproval. To make matters worse, the disappointment and disapproval, along with any sanctions serve to further diminish the child's self esteem, increase their stress and anxiety and make the behaviour more likely to be repeated.

This explains why rewards often don't work for children with ASD and PDA and why I always say that you can't manage behaviour until you understand the reasons behind it.

Worrying that you won't manage to earn a reward or that something precious to you might be damaged is more stressful than sabotaging the reward or destroying the object and being subject to everyone's disappointment and disapproval. To make matters worse, the disappointment and disapproval, along with any sanctions serve to further diminish the child's self esteem, increase their stress and anxiety and make the behaviour more likely to be repeated.

What a nightmare that sounds for a poor child with PDA :(

I can see why you would want to cancel it and in your shoes l would do. She needs to learn that her actions have consequences. Plus she may destry the bear anyway so that would be a waste of money.

Your Mum needs to butt out, she is getting too over involved. You are her mother at the end of the day. It is something for you and her father to decide on

I think let her go. You never know it might be ok. I think you need to find something that is her hobby. That either you and her share or her and her father. MIL is just not helpful, but that nothing new. You just shouldn't focus on it. Let your partner deal with it. It's his mother afterall. Alternatively take your daughter out on your own. And talk to her, don't argue. Even if you sit in silence just do that. Having twins, I've seen how one can be branded wreckless and the other an angel. But separating them really does help. Good luck and remember there is always hope.

Out of interest how does build bear cost 200 quid?

Oh my goodness it's easily the most ridiculous place on earth. My DC love it and can blow over a hundred pounds in there inside twenty minutes. It's the shoes, the hats, the bow and arrows, the bloody songboxes, the hearts, the scents, the wardrobes, the football kits. You name it, they've got it. And they release new ones to coincide with films on a regular basis.

Just this week we had the email about Jack and Sally from Nightmare Before Christmas and DS2 announced that's what he's spending his Birthday money (from January) on. I don't argue when it's their money but it's 100% nuts.

I see that PDA has already been mentioned by another pp, you really need to get urgent advice and support about her behaviour, it seems far more extreme than generally being difficult.

gingersausage - I see what you're saying, but just supposing the OP's DD does have PDA, there are definite guidelines on how to manage their behaviour and anxiety, which do not run along the same lines as managing other forms of ASD and in fact are often opposite.

If the OP does get a diagnosis, then she will know in which direction to turn to get the best help for her DD. If she doesn't, then she may still apply "standard" parenting techniques which frequently do not work at all well for children with high anxiety.

So there is a point.

I'm with others that have mentioned PDA. It's definitely worth looking into. Also worth reading about ASD (not just specific girl stuff) and ADHD. As a parent of an ASD child, I realised that I had been working around some of her issues without even realising I was doing it, and that in doing so I was hiding them. A quick read through a list is a start but sometimes you need to sit and really reflect on things before you can see the bigger picture.

Of course, it may be none of these things but it does sound like it is well worth investigating. How you deal with her behaviour, and what expectations you can realistically have of her, will be different depending on why she is behaving the way she is.

(Only read your responses)
My daughter was 18 when diagnosed and issues started when she went into year 3 as everything changed and she couldn't cope. Always good at school and would meltdown at home, so keep a diary.
I'd also up your parenting, be clear firm and consistent with both, it's hard to tell but those behaviour aren't the norm so see if parenting more will help b

Yes, I can see when you put it like that. I was thinking the bad behaviour might be from frustration if she was having problems in school, but I am projecting.

I would agree this might well be the case. The source of the behaviour is key and needs investigation.

My DD's a little like yours (not quite as destructive but we have a LOT of modelling toys and DH spends whole afternoons building with cardboard boxes with her - a decent play frame in the garden has helped her burn off energy). We've found Jeffrey Bernstein's books '10 Days to a less defiant child' and 'Liking the child you love' really helpful. He even has sections on what to do when extended family intervene unhelpfully... Both DH and I have got younger siblings who had some of these issues btw and they are both balanced employed adults now who are no weirder than anyone else. Regarding the teeth, try Tesco's strawberry toothpaste and a kids' electric brush (I figure at least you're getting more brushing done that way). We have huge homework issues so do a lot of it by stealth. Think spelling in the bath with stick on letters, reading any random exciting looking sign and all research projects are done with LEGO, magnets, Playdoh etc (by us if necessary - calming!) and photographed. Then bribe her to write a few words.