To cancelled DD7’s trip to build a bear with grandparents

[SpikyButt]

Sorry, long and rambly.

My DD2 is turning 7 in a few weeks.

She is extremely challenging at the moment.
Refusing to do as asked, from getting up in the morning, to getting dressed, brushing teeth, getting out of the house without a strop. She attacks her sister, who isn’t blameless either, we’ve had problems with her hurting other kids at school, her behaviour at school isn’t terrible but does ‘require improvement’. She gets angry and shouts a lot when asked to do things, just getting her to write a few sentences for her homework today was a couple of hours of screaming and crying despite my staying completely calm (which I often fail at). But the main issue concerning this AIBU is her constant destroying of toys and defacing other people’s property.

She cuts all the hair off her dolls, draws all over dolls, teddies, furniture in her room, pulls arms off dolls Etc. She likes to make potions and so several times I’ve caught her having taken toiletries from the bathroom and made a god awful mess in her bed. She draws on her sheets, her body, she once trimmed her eyelashes with scissors.

I know, I should keep everything out of her reach but she s crafty and finds and hides things. And do I really have to lock up all my toiletries from a nearly 7 year old?!

Anyway, my parents took my older to daughter to the Build a Bear Workshop for her 7th birthday, spent about £150 on her, then extra in the following weeks. They want to do the same for DD2.

We have talked about it a few times over the last few months and I had made it clear that I didn’t think it was a good idea, as she destroys or defaces pretty much ALL of her toys, plus she refuses to tidy up her toys so I periodically do a sweep and remove things. She doesn’t understand the value of things, or possible just doesn’t give a damn, isn’t it sending the wrong message?
Though I guess us buying her birthday presents is the same?

Yesterday my mum asked when would be a good time to take her to Build a Bear.
I said I thought we’d decided that wasn’t a good idea while she’s still destroying everything.
She said, “oh I know, but it’s not fair, she knows now”
So why did you say anything, then?! I hadn’t mentioned it at all to her.

I’m really quite annoyed, why does it have to be THIS birthday, why not next birthday when she’s hopefully better? DD2 has NO IDEA when her sister went, she didn’t even care much about the damn bear til my mum told her recently.
I realise I’m probably being petty and controlling but it annoys me that they just decided amongst themselves after we spoke about it.

This evening, after a long battle trying to get her to brush her teeth and stop annoying her sister, I came so close to threatening to cancel Build a Bear.

That’s another thing that my mum does, though.

She has before threatened DD with removing of outings that have nothing at all to do with her, and that she has no right to interfere with, such as a Rainbow’s trip and a Birthday party.
If I threaten something, I always follow through, these were things she had no control over and I would be left to carry out the ‘punishment’ on her behalf, making me the bad guy, again, because she used that to try to control her.

So, while I feel that’d be a horrible thing to do, my Mum threatens her with things she has no business with so why shouldn’t I? Especially after I told her no in the first bloody place?!

Meh. I can see I’m being petty, and it’s very unlikely I would cancel the trip unless DD2 did something especially bad, I’m just annoyed, mostly at my mother who I apparently have unresolved issues with that I never seem to be able to place.

But who is BU here?
Her for trying to do something nice for her granddaughter despite me telling her to wait a year,
Or me for being annoyed and potentially cancelling it if DD keeps being imbloodypossible?

Take her to lush. Kids can make their own bathbombs. If she's crafty, find an activity she'll enjoy.........it honestly sounds like she's sensory seeking to me. I think she'd benefit from an assessment for a sensory diet which should reduce the destructive behaviours if she has somewhere else to direct it. We actually donate our old clothes to a young boy who loves shredding stuff.........he still gets to shred, the rags go in the rag bin so.its a win win 💁

Agree with Crabbitstick, tried to get dd diagnosed at about 10 but finally diagnosed at 13.

To be honest this doesn't sound like the kind of behaviour that will be fixed by not letting her go to Build A Bear. This is not just carelessness. I don't mean to upset you but this sounds like something deeper and it probably wont get better by her next birthday without some professional help. Making potions and messes and cutting dolls hair is not so bad but hurting other kids in school and getting really upset when you want her to do everyday things, are worrying.

So, although your mother should respect your decisions, I think there is no point stopping DD from having her promised birthday treat. It will only distress her more and she already sounds pretty distressed. She's not doing all this defiant and aggressive behaviour for the fun of it. Whatever the cause, she needs help.

But I do agree that your mother should respect you as a parent and you should all be in agreement, for your DD's sake. If your mother threatens a punishment that you don't agree with then you absolutely do not have to follow through. Tell your mother that you will only back her up with punishments you have agreed to. If your mother cannot control your DD herself then you both need to face up to that fact.

There may be quite a few possible causes, we can't diagnose by internet and it may not be autism but without professional advice it isn't possible to rule out autism either, even if she can do things that don't fit the usual picture. Many children with autism are capable of being lovely, funny, helpful and considerate when they want to be - meaning, when things are right for them. So it really would be worth going to talk to the school and then to the GP about her behaviour and seeing if they'll refer her for some assessments to see what's going on. She could be much happier.

I have to say OP what you've described is my just turned 9 year old son who as not long been diagnosed as ASD, especially the focus on one friend and making "friends" easily with strangers. I would maybe raise it with the school and see what they think?

ADHD? She sounds quite 'full on'. Very similar to autism in many ways but I'm pretty sure girls present differently to boys as well. Might be worth a trip to the doctors and a referral.

Have you explored ADHD? Her behaviours sound very much like this. Speak to the Senco or your GP and ask for a referral to CAMHS,

Sorry - crosspost.

I really don't know how to start other than telling the GP she'll never do as asked without going nuts or just quietly refusing/ignoring me.

Tell the GP all the different stuff you've said here, including the messes and the hurting other kids in school. It's all part of the picture.

It still fells like she's just a stronger version of an awkward child?

It can be hard to judge. Sometimes it needs a professional to tell.

let her build a bear.step by step photo book it.reitteratepicture by picture how much fun she has,how special her bear she made her own self is and how everything she chooses is a special thing.give her the book and the bear. she is demanding your time and reassurance.the only way she knows how

Some of her behaviour sounds sensory, and some sounds like she's punishing herself, destroying her toys because inside she believes she doesnt deserve nice things.

Please have her referred. A trip to build a bear can be postponed, or your mum can take her for a different outing like to sn aquarium or somewhere which is costly to get in but is a fun experience.

I would read up on Autism in girls, adhd, Pathological Demand Avoidance, Oppositional Defiant Disorder and Sensory Processing Disorder. She may or may not have one of these disorders, but her behaviour doesn’t seems more extreme than would be typical for her age.
It sounds as if she is sensory seeking. It would be worth reading,up,on this and finding out how you can support this. Here’s one article.
blog.brainbalancecenters.com/2016/03/sensory-integration-ideas-for-a-sensory-seeker
Do see your gp and ask for advice about what to do next.
Don’t cancel the treat.

Does not doesn’t

I have to agree with going to see your GP. Getting some specialist input - probably a paediatrician could be very helpful.

My DD has ASD, diagnosed at 9, she has excellent language and at 16 a great deal of self awareness (pointed out today that an activity she was supposed to do today had not been designed for anyone with ASD - as it was too loud with too much sensory stimulation). And at 7 ish her "special interests" seemed normal fairy books, then the simpsons. Animals is another very common one for girsl. For your DD maybe it is making potions - although maybe it would be great if you could do some simple Chemistry with her? The obvious one is Bicarbonate volcano (you can add food colouring to make different colours. Another thing my DD did at that age, which also taught patience was growing crystals - you can make nice ones from just salt.

And my dolls as a child, lived in a big box in bits - and my mum would just reassemble one when I wanted to play with one.

bbcessex saraclara Sezzi
Why have you mentioned MIL. She has nothing to do with this.

My mistake - mum

Does your daughter experience the cutting off dolls hair, tearing off arms etc as destructive? Taken together with the potion making it could be she is being imaginative and experimenting a bit.

I think it matters whether this is something she does in anger, or not.
You also say her teachers say she is very bright, but her effort is poor. Altogether these behaviours suggest your daughter is very,very bright.

It is possible she is uttely bored in school, because they are not moving on as fast as she understands things, and she is just not challenged. Obviously there may be other issues as well, but some of her behaviours might be to do with her needing more intellectual stimulation. You do sometimes find unusually high IQs along with Aspergers, but obviously high IQ does not in and off itself indicate ASD.

Sadly it is not only with diagnoses for ASD, ADHD etc that girls often express it differently to boys and so get overlooked for diagnoses; our culture is also more slow in recognising intelligence in girls.

Either way, it might help you daughter if you ramp up praising her for how clever she is. Along with the cauldron suggestion above, she could really begin to understand herself as a super clever budding chemist (or wizard, if that’s more her thing )

It could be dyslexia either. The fact that she's bright but not making 'an effort' is how my two daughters were described and they both have dyslexia.

This shows a lot of red flags to both my DD. Both completely different, both eventually dx ASD at 12 & 18 after being initially fobbed off much younger. PDA in particular, which most places won't dx, sounds like your DD. My youngest presents with PDA but dx ASD. How about you research PDA & try the strategies suggested on behaviour management to see if they help? You have nothing to lose.

I would definitely allow the Build a bear visit to go ahead. I would also start looking into getting her assessed for ASD, in particular PDA presentation (demand avoidance) & ADHD & ODD. I would start the ball rolling via NHS, but if you can stretch to it, or DM can help, get a private assessment. If I knew how long it would take for my DD I would have gone private back then.

Obviously nobody can diagnose over the internet and hopefully you will be getting proper help. But in the meantime, if your child is autistic these children tend to respond better to rewards than punishment. So, for example, you might promise a child that if she starts brushing her teeth properly for five days or a week then you'll buy her a fancy toothbrush of some sort or whatever it is that is a special treat to her. Don't start off with too ambitious a goal. Incidentally, the flavour of the toothpaste could be a problem - I know parents who had to buy non-mint toothpaste as some children have a lot of sensory issues. Also are her clothes comfortable - soft fabric, no seams rubbing, with comfortable shoes? Once you do the punishment thing, you've got an upset child, you're upset and whatever you wanted hasn't happened. It might go against the grain to reward for normal behaviour but it's not her normal. I think it is important to praise the child for good behaviour or doing something well even if you have to wrack your brains for something.

She needs an urgent psychological assessment.

Wouldn't pay any attention to threats and punishment from her.
Remind her in front of DC that if they misbehave she speaks to you and you will handle it.

Why do you care about the bear? It's a waste of money. But it's her money, you've explained the situation and said it's a bad idea. Leave her to it.

Unless you've told dd no more toys. Then you say no

Sounds like you're letting her parent and handing her all the authority she wants.

I see Pathological Demand Avoidance has been mentioned already - it's worth looking into.
Try this website for a check list - if it fits, you have a starting point.
www.pdasociety.org.uk/resources/extreme-demand-avoidance-questionnaire

I have a friend whose DD sounds very like yours - terribly destructive, no care for anything, drew on anything and everything - it was all anxiety based stress release.
She can't get a diagnosis despite fitting the criteria, because we're in Australia and almost no one will diagnose it here as it's not listed in the DSM VI as a separate entity. However, the behaviour management is very different from ASD, so putting it under that umbrella helps no one - the child isn't autistic (has been tested) so has no help at all except if her teachers will listen to her mum and follow the guidelines offered by the PDA society.

As for the Build a Bear thing - your mother is overstepping boundaries left and right, but in this case it's her loss if your DD destroys the bear not yours. Your DD knows now about the trip so how will it affect her if you say she can't go? If it's going to cause massive ructions then I probably would let her go THIS TIME and this time alone.

And for future interactions, DO NOT follow through on your mother's punishments just because she said so - you're giving your mother that power, and you don't want her to have it, so stop.

If you hear her say it, say "no, granny doesn't have that power - only I or Dad can say whether or not you go to something" (I have to do this with my DS1 who is 5y older than DS2 and tries it on him sometimes - I say so both of them can hear that it is not in his power to stop X happening). Your mother will have to find another way to deal with your DD2 - hopefully by referring her back to you, like normal people? "I'll tell your mother how you're behaving and she can decide what to do with you"

But look into the behaviour management aspects of PDA first - just in case. And yes, try and get her a referral to a child psychologist (or whomever is required in the UK - it's a child psych here) for potential diagnosis.

Oops, forgot to mention one thing that really helped with the drawing everywhere/toy destruction with my friend's child was to give her an area that was all hers, so she could draw all she wanted. Blackboard paint a section of her wall, maybe - or get some of those flipchart paper pads so she can scribble away on those. It's an anxiety release for her so give her an area she CAN scribble on and remind her that she is only to use that from now on. Buy her some toys that can be knocked down, destroyed, whatever, but will go back together again afterwards. Maybe sticklebrix or lego if she doesn't already have them.

Re your daughter, I hope you're able to n get her whatever help she needs.

On the other end of the spectrum, is it possible she's just intellectually bored?
I know lots of children who took thinks apart, destroyed things etc just to see what it was like.
Does she have any other 'compulsive' behaviours? OCD isn't just about washing hands and straightening things up!

The Build a Bear thing is the least if your worries. There is something underlying this. It’s not typical. Your daughter needs help.

One of mine had ASD, ADHD, GAD and a hole host of other issues. Some of the things you have pointed out seem to fit more with the ADHD behaviours of my child around that age. They are an adult now and once it was recognised as a child what the issues were and they got the corresponding assistance, not only did the behaviours improve dramatically but importantly they were so much happier and calmer within themselves.

No I wouldn't cancel the gift.

there is something seriously wrong with your daughter and I think you need to seek professional help urgently.

this all is very alarming.
please get help for her.