To cancelled DD7’s trip to build a bear with grandparents

[SpikyButt]

Sorry, long and rambly.

My DD2 is turning 7 in a few weeks.

She is extremely challenging at the moment.
Refusing to do as asked, from getting up in the morning, to getting dressed, brushing teeth, getting out of the house without a strop. She attacks her sister, who isn’t blameless either, we’ve had problems with her hurting other kids at school, her behaviour at school isn’t terrible but does ‘require improvement’. She gets angry and shouts a lot when asked to do things, just getting her to write a few sentences for her homework today was a couple of hours of screaming and crying despite my staying completely calm (which I often fail at). But the main issue concerning this AIBU is her constant destroying of toys and defacing other people’s property.

She cuts all the hair off her dolls, draws all over dolls, teddies, furniture in her room, pulls arms off dolls Etc. She likes to make potions and so several times I’ve caught her having taken toiletries from the bathroom and made a god awful mess in her bed. She draws on her sheets, her body, she once trimmed her eyelashes with scissors.

I know, I should keep everything out of her reach but she s crafty and finds and hides things. And do I really have to lock up all my toiletries from a nearly 7 year old?!

Anyway, my parents took my older to daughter to the Build a Bear Workshop for her 7th birthday, spent about £150 on her, then extra in the following weeks. They want to do the same for DD2.

We have talked about it a few times over the last few months and I had made it clear that I didn’t think it was a good idea, as she destroys or defaces pretty much ALL of her toys, plus she refuses to tidy up her toys so I periodically do a sweep and remove things. She doesn’t understand the value of things, or possible just doesn’t give a damn, isn’t it sending the wrong message?
Though I guess us buying her birthday presents is the same?

Yesterday my mum asked when would be a good time to take her to Build a Bear.
I said I thought we’d decided that wasn’t a good idea while she’s still destroying everything.
She said, “oh I know, but it’s not fair, she knows now”
So why did you say anything, then?! I hadn’t mentioned it at all to her.

I’m really quite annoyed, why does it have to be THIS birthday, why not next birthday when she’s hopefully better? DD2 has NO IDEA when her sister went, she didn’t even care much about the damn bear til my mum told her recently.
I realise I’m probably being petty and controlling but it annoys me that they just decided amongst themselves after we spoke about it.

This evening, after a long battle trying to get her to brush her teeth and stop annoying her sister, I came so close to threatening to cancel Build a Bear.

That’s another thing that my mum does, though.

She has before threatened DD with removing of outings that have nothing at all to do with her, and that she has no right to interfere with, such as a Rainbow’s trip and a Birthday party.
If I threaten something, I always follow through, these were things she had no control over and I would be left to carry out the ‘punishment’ on her behalf, making me the bad guy, again, because she used that to try to control her.

So, while I feel that’d be a horrible thing to do, my Mum threatens her with things she has no business with so why shouldn’t I? Especially after I told her no in the first bloody place?!

Meh. I can see I’m being petty, and it’s very unlikely I would cancel the trip unless DD2 did something especially bad, I’m just annoyed, mostly at my mother who I apparently have unresolved issues with that I never seem to be able to place.

But who is BU here?
Her for trying to do something nice for her granddaughter despite me telling her to wait a year,
Or me for being annoyed and potentially cancelling it if DD keeps being imbloodypossible?

Your daughters behaviour is challenging, but she is trying to communicate to you. Children can't rationalise or just say "I'm having a hard time', it comes out in their behaviour. Can you spend some 1 on 1 time with her to try and see if you can figure out what's going on? My 7yo is struggling atm but she is introverted with her feelings so it's the opposite problem, but still hard to get her to discuss what's behind the behaviour (she picks her head).

Cancelling the build a bear now she knows about it would make things worse IMO. If she chooses to deface it then that's her problem, it's her toy at the end of the day and she'll have to live with it. If she didn't know about it I'd say it's fine to wait another year.

what is she like at school? does she have friends -does she have friends to play at your house -how is she with them - does she go round to other friends houses? Is there any chance she is being bullied - how is she with her father?

Well the responses are alarming, but thanks!

Her behaviour at the moment just seems like a somewhat more extreme version of her sister's who was also really challenging up to the age of about 7/8 and now at 11 she's a pretty easy child. But honestly, since DD2 started nursery there's been a few incidents of hitting other kids and not wanting to co-operate wheres DD1 has always behaved perfectly at school.
I just put it down to her being more stubborn/defiant, maybe we were easier on her as she was our second? I don't know, but as time goes by I do wonder if there's something more there and what approaches we need to take before she gets worse.

It was only the last half term at school that school approached me, and it wasn't actually her class teacher, other than noting in her school report that her behaviour needs improvement (she's very bright but her effort is poor) nothing has been said by her actual teacher.

Now you've all got me thinking I need to take her to the Dr but it's hard to pinpoint and explain exactly what the problem is other than what I've put here?
I've seen a few things mentioned about girls with autism that have rung bells, but really, there's too many things that would rule it out I think. She just knows her mind and doesn't really care about a lot of other stuff.
She can be lovely, helpful, funny, considerate... when she wants to be.

But yeah, I don't think I will cancel the trip, I was just so annoyed earlier when she wouldn't just brush her bloody teeth after I let her stay up late, and that got me annoyed at my mum for telling her she could go after we'd said it'd be best not to.

I do worry a lot that I am failing her. And it's so hard to parent how I want to or spend one on one time when she's being so challenging.

About the messes and concoctions - we do stuff like that a fair bit, she likes slime making, and we play with bicarb/vinegar, cornflour dough Etc, but she'll still go ahead and make god awful messes in her bed at night. Not every night, but her bed is currently a mess of cut up dolls hair and pen marks and bits of tissue and slime a few days after changing the sheets. I've pretty much given up on insisting she doesn't sleep in a pit of weird stuff.

Like so many other posters have said your DD sounds desperately unhappy and this must be so hard for all of you. This outing really is the least of your issues. Is there anyone in real life helping you with this, it really does seem to go beyond normal boundary pushing.

Sounds EXACTLY like my daughter around her 7th birthday, she was diagnosed ASD two years later after many battles. Please read what Tony Attwood has to say about girls with autism, will help you decide if you need to pursue.

I would not cancel the Build a Bear, but would keep it low key if you can.

I have a 7 year old son with ASD and reading a lot of these things you have posted makes me wonder if your daughter has an underlying condition. My sons behaviour has improved dramatically in the last 2 years BUT he has a lot of support at both school and home so has been learning how to self regulate. I think you need to raise some concerns with your dds school to be honest. As for the consequences I always follow through on any threats made such as trip cancellations for both my kids including my child with ASD.

you said you wouldn't know what to say to the GP, but just your OP has had a lot of people commenting that there may be something wrong, so even that much information may be enough for GP.

Please don't see this as a failure of parenting. A good parent is one who recognises when there are problems and seeks help.
She really is struggling and needs some help.

A few ideas in the meantime, give her a potions box. Large box with smaller boxes inside, fill the smaller boxes with a wide variety of stuff, from pasta, to wool/yarn off cuts, to tissue paper etc. Also have some bottles - cheap washing up liquid/shampoo, etc.
Add a mixing pot ie a large saucepan/ dish with a lid.
Allow her to make any potions she likes, but it must be with stuff from the box, and must be in her 'cauldron'
You can regularly offer her stuff for the box - Oh dd, I found a box/bottle of xxx at the shop, would be like it for your potions box?

Then you can make a firm rule that nothing out of the box is allowed without permission. So she can come and ask you for flour/ shampoo, but she can't take it.

But I have to say, that for a kid who doesn't really play with dolls, then chopping off their hair for a potion sounds much more fun that dressing it up. To some extent there has to be an element of - their toys, they can do as they want. When it is gone it is gone.

SHe sounds like my middle who is 8. We are going through cahms with her at the moment and they are going down the adhd route

I agree with previous posters who say you need to focus on the reasons behind her behaviour.

Autism jumped out at me too but clearly it's just a suggestion of an avenue to explore before anyone starts on about armchair diagnosers.

Whatever the root of this behaviour, you need to find it and address it. It's pretty much impossible to manage behaviour you don't understand.

If she does have a neurodevelopmental disorderl like autism, as assessment will help you to understand better how to help and support her at home and at school.

In terms of the buidk a bear trip, I wouldn't cause upset by banning the trip. That sort of sanction isn't generally very successful anyway. However, I would ask your parents to cut right back on the budget so there's less to lose when she has another destructive moment. This may protect your DD too, as sometimes having something really nice can feel like a lot of pressure so messing it up can allow the child to relax. This is an aspect of PDA that is an issue for my DD2.

I would try to stop planning and implementing sanctions for now and focu more on getting your DD assessment and support so live becomes nicer for her.

At her age I also loved making “perfume”, cut my doll’s hair, and would sometimes draw on their faces. I would make up stories for them and get actually angry with my dolls and bite them ....I was a very happy little girl, I just had a big imagination, and I was emotional, and would act out emotions with my dolls. I didn’t bite any actual people I should add !
So although she is obviously challenging at the moment, it doesn’t all sound horrendous to me. Can she do something really creative as an outlet ?
Re the build a bear, I would let her go. If she damages the bear, well, he is hers to damage, and she needs to take responsibility. There is a Katy Morag story where she damages her bear, you could try reading that to her and see how she responds? In the story KM is angry as she has a new baby sister, and she takes out her anger on her teddy, and then bitterly regrets it. It all ends well. There is also a good picture book story called Big and Small, that made my “Small” cry, but does convey the huge emotions between siblings very well.

Sorry for all those typos

theres a lot of red flags described here for pda

Look into Hand in Hand Parenting . It’s a completely different approach to challenging kids that really changes the dynamic.

could I also suggest you have her vision & hearing checked just to exclude these as problems?
www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/new-guidelines-on-child-antisocial-behaviour/
Oppositional Defiant Disorder seems apossibility

Hi OP

it sounds like a very tough time.

Firstly - your MIL doesn't need to spend £150+ on build a bear for either of your daughters - that's OTT and and not part of the joy of Build a Bear. One bear, one outfit and a few bits at a time could be £70 and your kids would love it. Don't let your MIL go so overboard.

Secondly - sorry to be alarmist, but your DD's behaviour is extreme. I'm sure it's top end and manageable for you in an controlled environment (your home), but it's not typical for a 7 year old so you may want to get some support.

Does she go for play dates with friends, etc? What's the feedback there?

I don't think recommending any new parenting style or books is of any value until the OP has her daughter thoroughly evaluated by a pediatrician and/or developmental/behavioral pediatrician or pediatric psychologist. Sometimes in the thick woods of parenting we fail to see the trees. As a mother of a special needs child your daughter needs an examination and you need additional support as her parents. Best of luck

I don't believe in random sanctions but as her behaviour involved destroying toys I would not be advocating her having this trip which involves £150+ new toy!

Put your foot down on this one. You could suggest it for Christmas if he has improved but then?

Some excellent advice here for you OP.

In terms of the build a Bear trip, I would recommend that she still goes, but only gets a basic bear. They could buy her a gift card and when she proves that she can look after the bear and not destroy it, she can go and buy some accessories for it.

The making a mess and potions etc sounds sensory. I would def talk to gp about seeing a paed. Lots of what you say sounds like asd or adhd could be possible. My daughter is autistic and is sweet and funny and has friends but she also has major issues with various aspects of life. Girls often present very differently to boys.

SpikyButt I would allow the birthday treat as planned. But I would tell your parents to back you up, and support you, they need to be supporting you because you have a lot on your plate!

However, my biggest concern is for your dd, she sounds very troubled and unhappy. The destruction might be a cry for help. Could she be being bullied or hurt in some way? Could it be un-diagnosed autism?

"She just knows her mind and doesn't really care about a lot of other stuff.
She can be lovely, helpful, funny, considerate... when she wants to be."

This can also be true of my dd, who was finally diagnosed as being on the spectrum at 13.

I wonder if you are also (no offense but this struck me) more concerned about belongings in this scenario. As you say "But the main issue concerning this AIBU is her constant destroying of toys and defacing other people’s property.

"But the main issue concerning this AIBU is her constant destroying of toys and defacing other people’s property.

She cuts all the hair off her dolls, draws all over dolls, teddies, furniture in her room, pulls arms off dolls Etc."

Where as you say "She draws on her sheets, her body, she once trimmed her eyelashes with scissors." I would find the incident with scissors so close to her eyes more concerning.

If your parents want to spend a lot on a teddy she may end up destroying, so be it, but please search out some help (via school or GP or self referral to Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services for your dd. I would make a note of the destruction and keep a record of photos of it etc because you will need to prove how bad it is.

CAMHS are not falling over themselves to help children who do not need it so she will not end up being labelled etc unless it really is the right thing.

Also you are not failing her! Feeling like this should be part of the diagnostic criteria as every parent I know with autistic kids (especially girls) say this!

Sorry did not mean to repeat that bit!

Oh @SirVixofVixHall what's the KM book called? We have a few KM books which she seems to like and they're doing KM in school at the moment so that would be perfect if we read that before maybe.
I cut my dolls' hair too, but the occasional one, not ALL of them. She actually really does like dolls, she loves LOL dolls, but has destroyed every one pretty much. I just let her get on with it now, though mention it's a shame to break everything.

Thanks for the potion box advice steppemum, she'd really like that, especially if she could get it out whenever, I just hope she doesn't take it too far and keeps it in her cauldron :)

Thanks again for the replies.

It was mentioned by the occasional teacher that she seems so unhappy, which really cut me if I'm honest. She generally seems pretty happy at home until she's told she has to stop an activity/tidy up/get off screens/brush teeth/go to bed Etc.
Just now I had to go up and tell her and her sister to be quiet because they're bouncing around their room manic as hell but giddy and happy? But she does get randomly grumpy, she's had a thing for glaring at people for no apparent reason since she started nursery at 3, but is much better in that sense now. The 'unhappiness' usually has an obvious cause such as being told no or funtime is over/not wanting to do school work.

I had another quick read of autism symptoms in girls, and of '11 main' ones, she has about 3 and a bit. No specific interest things, no limited conversations, converses quite well, maybe a few relationship things, but she's fairly outgoing and chatty and often makes friends when we're out at the park Etc, but she is VERY focused on one specific child in her class and has never really otherwise mentioned consistently any other 'best' friends.
She is not keen on reading, though reads well after the daily struggle to read her book, and really hates writing but is pretty good at maths, not genius level but exceeding expectations (but she's September born) and can sometimes get simple mental maths questions quicker than her older sister. She's also really fussy with clothes, loves velour, gets very annoyed at cardigans and even more fussy about shoes but I'm really grasping at straws now.

But yes, something is not right, I think I need to keep a record and try to organise my own thoughts and see about trying to get some sort of help but I really don't know how to start other than telling the GP she'll never do as asked without going nuts or just quietly refusing/ignoring me. It still fells like she's just a stronger version of an awkward child?

Girls with ASD are often late to be diagnosed as they are often better (than boys) at mimicking social cues. They learn how they are expected to behave in some ways and it can make it seem like ASD is unlikely.

You are seeking help. That is the important thing! You are doing well.

If she has 'issues' is being bullied or has autism then lots of rules and sanctions etc will not help her. I think you will help her by finding out what is going on, putting appropriate boundaries in place and assisting her through this.

Agree with Curious2468 'My daughter is autistic and is sweet and funny and has friends but she also has major issues with various aspects of life. Girls often present very differently to boys.'