To go ahead and feed my vegetarian kids meat?

[QueenEagle]

To clarify:

I am meat eater, dh is strict, strict vegetarian. We agreed when I was pregnant with our first that baby would eat fish and chicken.

One way or another I was overruled since and both our 2 kids have been veggie as dh couldn't face them having meat or animal products until they were of an age to decide for themselves.

They are 4.5 and 2.5 and their diets consist mainly of a processed frozen Quorn product such as sausages, Quorn chicken kiev sttyle thing, or similar with potatoes/pasta and veg. As often as time constraints allow, I make veggie shepherds pie or lasagne from scratch (ish).

Anyway, increasingly I wish to feed them good quality meat and I do struggle for inspiration for veggie dishes; in short I am getting quite tired of them being veggie because of dh's wishes whilst mine are disregarded.

Our relationship is at a very bad point right now and I suspect dh would see this as me trying to have a go at him. My older 3 kids have been veggie by choice for the last 4 years (dh and me been 2gether for 6). However dd has recently started eating meat again and tbh it's been lovely having a fellow meat eater in the house, and being able to do hearty beef casseroles and pork chops etc for someone other than myself.

If you have stuck reading this through that load of old ramblings, thank - any advice? What should I do?

Hmmm......it is also healthy for kids NOT to have meat too.

"As for inspiration on veggie meals, TBH there's not really a lot you can do, except to replace meat with Quorn" ???

Oh dear, if I wasn't so tired... Look, to everyone who knows nothing about good veggie food (and to whoever it was that said earlier that veggies can't be "foodies" as there's less food to eat, please all go to eat at Green's in Didsbury and report back when you know what you're talking about!!

It was suggested earlier that vegetarians have ethics and they can't compromise them, but meat-eaters had no ethic that one had to eat meat and so did everyone around them.

But I didn't say veggies couldn't be foodies. I was saying that being a foodie is a big part of your lifestyle and personality, and that the vegetarians who didn't understand that were more likely to not care about food because they are eating a restrictive diet. Of course it's restrictive - if you go to a restaurant, most dishes won't be suitable for you to eat. If part of your lifestyle was trying new restaurants and loving exploring food with your other half, that part is not availabe to vegetarians. Home cooked food isn't the only part of being a 'foodie' - sorry, the word now sounds as ridiculous to me. I used to love eating out in France, and spent last summer with my husband in Normandy. He peered at every menu in every glass box and pronounced it unsuitable. Even the Chinese restaurant, which had vegetarian dishes, because he said he just didn't trust the rural French not to use meaty ingredients. We were staying in a hotel, so we ate brie and cheese every night in the beautiful hotel gardens. As a, godhelpme, foodie, this put something of a blight on the holiday. Before I met him I would pick veggie options on menus hundreds of times because it was what I wanted to eat. But of course there isn't AS MUCH variety, AS MANY delicious things to eat, it is to me obviously easier not to form such an intense attachment to food when you are eating fewer things, so I can see why some vegetarians think, well it's not an ethical thing for you , it must be easier for you to give it up. It is still a big thing to give up.

And I now own many dozens of vegetarian food books. I have tried many recipes. I don't know nothing about vegetarian food. I know how nice it can be.

One of the best cooks of my acquaintance is a strict vegetarian; another is mainly vegetarian.

Well gosh, just imagine what they could come up with if they added pork to the mix.

I know meatless food can be delicious. But it is a small part of the full spectrum of food. It is still not well catered for in most restaurants.

Well in that case why don't we add to the full spectrum? How about grilled OAP feet or cat kebabs, no no I want some dolphin fritters

QueenEagle: I'm vegan (after having been ovo-lacto for 20 years), DH is omni. Our "compromise" is that DS (26mths) is ovo-lacto. This works fine because in our house I do 90% of the cooking! (and DH does 90% of the washing up, I think I get the good end of the deal )

I think PPs have given great ideas for recipes, esp. red lentils which cook really quickly and make a great sauce with tinned tomatoes and onions.

Also agree with Leati that if your kids have never eaten meat they may find it really hard to digest!

But actually I think that if your DH feels very strongly about the kids being vegetarian then he should do more cooking! I'm all for veggie kids but it sounds a bit unfair that he's insisting on them being veggie but wants you to put in all the effort!

Well no, let's restrict the spectrum more and pretend that everything is just as delicious without butter.

Erm, biologically, human beings are semi-carnivorous (omnivorous, to me, suggests that one's diet could just as easily include stones, wood and metal) so not eating meat is either a matter of choice or, on occasions a matter of economy as it is cheaper to eat more veg, pulses etc than to eat a lot of meant AS LONG as you know a bit about cooking. I eat meat but have vegetarian and vegan friends, I regard their avoidance of meat as, you know, one of those daft things mates do, like believing in gods/feng shui/horoscopes or playing bridge. However, some people who avoid meat seem to be doing so partly because they like to make utter f*88king pests of themselves. SOmeone who wants to show small children videos of animal slaughter to prove a point is one of these. It's totally unnecessary and about bullying rather than about ethics.

"I regard their avoidance of meat as, you know, one of those daft things mates do"

Wow, how patronising.
I wonder what daft things you do.

I don't avoid meat, I just don't eat it. Ffs.

Walnutshell - well, loads of things, obviously. But eating, or not eating meat, in itself, is a personal choice. It's not something I'd want to fall out with a friend over unless said friend was a thorough pain in the arse about it.

Oh, I can't be arsed..

I've just been through something similar. I have been veggie for 18 years and DP is a committed carnivore. My Dad has been veggie for life but as my mum was the one cooking I was bought up eating meat as a kid.

I gave my DS meat at 7 months as there was a chance he had a dairy allergy so he needed protein. I now do him organic meat and fish and figure that it will make life easier for him at parties and school. But last week I started eating fish . I blame the fish fingers.

I understand how much cooking veggie dishes must be driving you up the wall. I am a pretty good cook and it got to me too. If you kids want it maybe your DH would agree to them having fish and your life might be a bit easier.

i`m veggie .dh is meat eater and my dd is a true carnivore and my son is a veggie..both by choice.although my dd also adores veggie food..in fact she eats everything!!

you need to try to sort out problems with your dh before you give your kids meat.

But you probably know that.

I don't really know what to say regarding feeding the children meat or not. But it sounds to me as if he is a bit bullying. There was an agreement made and you are worried about him going ballistic if you offered a child fish or chicken.

It does sound like you are annoyed with him though but I can (sort of) understand why.

Sushipaws - There is nothing ludicrous about veggies giving their children meat. My child can't decide for herself and so I'll give her everything until she can decide.

In answer to your question, I am vegetarian for moral reasons but I do think it is normal and natural for humans to eat meat. I gave up eating meat when freedom food was hard if not impossible to buy and now that it is available, I find I just don't want to go back to meat.

I disagree that my child will grow up confused. Quite the opposite, in fact. She'll know that the food she eats is ethically sourced and healthy and that her Mum and Dad eat slightly differently. If she takes any issue with meat consumption then she will be supported either way. As I say, I don't see a problem with eating meat, I see a problem with factory farming and animal cruelty.

It's quite easy to give my child meat without eating it myself...I just cook her food containing meat and I cook us food not containing meat - what's to understand?

I am vegetarian, its not through choice i just do not like fish or meat, and havent done since i was around 7ish. My dp is a meat eatter. We have never sat down and said ok you have to or you cant feed them that!

Despite the fact that meat repulses me i will still make and prepare meat dishes for the rest of my family as i know that meat plays a very big part in getting kids protein energy vitamins iron etc etc whilst growing.

If they said to me mum i dont want to eat meat i dont like it then thats fair enough and i wont force them but i would never hold back a food because i didnt eat it.

Personally i think your partner is being quite selfish to the children in holding back what i think is a vital diet in their development.

sorry to have rambled but i have had this from a few people that know i am veggie and say things like "so what do you give the kids to eat then?" despite the fact i give them meat its like its the only thing to eat in this world lol and the old time favourite "what do you have with sunday lunch " lmao

IMHO feed your kids what the hell you like its not up to him to dictate what they eat! men just cuz they got a set of balls they think they can demand everything

Macneil - please make your dh cook his own meals. His fussing around will only add stress to the household. Stress about food is the worst kind and can give children all kinds of hangups, which I'm guessing your dh may already have. His wretching at the first whiff of meat cooking is his problem, not yours. Sorry if I seem impatient.

Queeneagle - Sometimes it's best not to make plans and decisions about things like food and it's better to just let it happen - if you're cooking vege for young ones and meat for older ones the younger ones may get a taste for meat. If you're enjoying it too, it is even more likely that they will. It would be very unfair to enjoy meat and then not let them have it (if they want it that is).
Are your 2 dcs his first ones? It sounds like he is being over-protective and needs to chill out about this issue, which, in the greater scheme of things is not worth breaking hearts over.

I don't really understand why someone who thinks that being a vegetarian is that important would choose to be with someone who is not a vegetarian. If it mattered that much to them surely they would only choose to live with a fellow vegetarian?

I am not a vegatarian but would never describe myself as a "meat eater", I eat a normal diet of which meat and fish are a part, like the great majority of people, and as humans were designed. I was brought up by my mother who felt strongly that vegetarians (unless for religious reasons) were fussy eaters, and in my mother's moral book that was very unethical, so there is more than one moral way to look at the eating or not of meat. I have no problem with understanding where meat comes from, as children we ate freshly caught fish, and a couple of times rabbits that my mother accidentally ran over (this was re mixamytosis, and excellent for impromtu anatomy lessons). When we visit farms I have always explained that that's where lamb or beef or pork come from and would be happy for them to watch something like The F word (well except for all the swearing) which showed animals being killed and eaten but I would be furious if someone shoved a "lets see the nastiest way to kill an animal" video in front of my kids.

Anyway, I do sympathise with you QE. My dh became a bodybuilder at a real dip in our relationship, and it changed eating and cooking meals, which until then had been one of my real pleasures in life to a bone of contention. Cooking just for yourself is so depressing, and cooking things you don't really like instead of things you know you are good at and like to share is even more so IMO. I would go out an buy some really good vegtarian cook books, give them to your dh and let him know that cooking is now his department, and that the deal if he wants to keep with the vege thing, then no more processed crap. Having said that there is no way my children (esp dd) would be happy to eat any of the vege suggestions here (I probably would enjoy them though ) as they like plain food where they can see what they are eating.

QE - you said

"ds aged 2.5 has often asked to eat some of what I am eating. dh would go utterly ballistic if I gave him anyhting - he would consider that I had contaminated his child if meat passed his lips! "

You then said

"dh is veggie for ethical reasons. "

Hmmmm.

MrsMarvel - I think there's something in your advice to me. We have quite a larky way of doing things, but if a young child heard him whining about meat being disgusting there's no way it wouldn't have an effect. Kids don't really need much encouragement to go crazy where food is concerned. I think part of the challenge is to be the cooler parent so she can laugh at her father, but I think the other part is to make sure he really understands that young children don't necessarily follow when someone is being quite camp, and to take care with what he says around her. I've already mentioned this to him since reading your post. He larkily dismissed it, but I have my eye on him. If he's going to properly agree to her eating fish/meat, he's also going to have to be sensible about it.

Nooka, you asked about a vegetarian living with a non-vegetarian. I don't insist that my partner has the same opinions as me on everything. We have very different spiritual beliefs as well - and I have friends with wildly different religious and sometimes political beliefs to me as well. I like to live with, and be friends with people who have the same kind of values and beliefs as me, but I don't require a carbon copy of myself.

Iliketosleep if eating meat is a "vital diet in their development" how do you explain the large numbers of healthy children and adults in this country who eat only a vegetarian diet?

I'm not suggesting that all vegetarians would have an issue with living with a non vegetarian, just that if it is a very strong ethical belief, surely it would cause problems. In the same way as I imagine it would be very difficult for a committed Christian to live with someone who took a strong aetheist stance. And I imagine if such a couple had children, there would be difficulties because most people (IME) want their children to be brought up with their beliefs too (or at least not contrary to them). I don't think it is the same as having friends, because it's a much less intimate relationship, where the way of living can be tolerated by either party without too much friction. I was certainly very aware growing up that my parents differences of belief (around religion, money and politics) caused them huge grief.

Well I can on;y speak for myself, but it doesn't cause problems for me and my dp. He knew when we moved in together how I felt about meat and that I didn't want it in the house. He really enjoys eating meat but is happy to do it elsewhere (or at least willing to do this to keep me happy), and doesn't give a fig whether ds eats it or not. Why would he? Ds is happy and healthy, there is always something nice here to eat in the evenings, and we enjoy going out together as a family where everyone can choose what they want to eat.

I know dp understands my values but he personally chooses to eat meat. He chooses to buy fair trade organic clothing whenever he can because it is important to him. I buy stuff from chains and discount stores. We recognise neither of us are perfect and that we make our own decisions.