To go ahead and feed my vegetarian kids meat?

[QueenEagle]

To clarify:

I am meat eater, dh is strict, strict vegetarian. We agreed when I was pregnant with our first that baby would eat fish and chicken.

One way or another I was overruled since and both our 2 kids have been veggie as dh couldn't face them having meat or animal products until they were of an age to decide for themselves.

They are 4.5 and 2.5 and their diets consist mainly of a processed frozen Quorn product such as sausages, Quorn chicken kiev sttyle thing, or similar with potatoes/pasta and veg. As often as time constraints allow, I make veggie shepherds pie or lasagne from scratch (ish).

Anyway, increasingly I wish to feed them good quality meat and I do struggle for inspiration for veggie dishes; in short I am getting quite tired of them being veggie because of dh's wishes whilst mine are disregarded.

Our relationship is at a very bad point right now and I suspect dh would see this as me trying to have a go at him. My older 3 kids have been veggie by choice for the last 4 years (dh and me been 2gether for 6). However dd has recently started eating meat again and tbh it's been lovely having a fellow meat eater in the house, and being able to do hearty beef casseroles and pork chops etc for someone other than myself.

If you have stuck reading this through that load of old ramblings, thank - any advice? What should I do?

I think if anyone ever gave my DS meat I would go frickin' mental. DP isn't veggie but he would never give DS meat because he knows he would be slaughtered himself if I ever found out! Plus he respects me too much to ever do so, and I think if the OP is considering feeding kids meat she should think very carefully about the real motives.

I've never really eaten meat apart from a brief period in my life where I was forced to. I don't want DS eating it either until he can make an informed decision.

It is absolutely possible to give a child a very healthy and balanced diet without including meat but you have to know your stuff.

Some of the posts on here have been cracking!

hmmmm

re the posts saying can your dh compromise

how can he compromise? er if you are veggie you do not eat meat

end of

and that includes fish and chicken imo

so compromise is out really on his side tbh

are you making the veggie thing an issue for something else maybe?

I don't like much meat, dh does, when he has his steak [puke], I have somehting else

(suzy - I was veggie for years and it was due to that tosspot Morrisey too - my friend worked in the studio with him recently and said he was great, once he realised he was a fellow manc. ooooh get us with our studio talk)

"...but protein deficiency is very rare in the west."

Um... because people eat so much meat in the west? It is a nightmare trying to find a high protein meal for my vegetarian husband, and I'd like there to be a lot of protein because the BBC programme about fat said that the four best ways of keeping down fat were

a) eating dairy

b) eating vegetable soup before a meal

c) eating small portions

d) eating high-protein meals.

In addition, skimmed milk products have been found to have a link with reduced fertility. So that leaves eggs, tofu (my husband and I like different types of tofu) cheese, nuts, and the careful combination of grain and pulse. It's hard to just whip up a grain and pulse meal, they take a while. The others have varying degrees of fat and cholesterol. Fish contains only good fat, and very little of it, hardly any calories, it has so many things that are good for you. It is a lot easier to have a balanced healthy diet when you're not restricting any food groups, surely?

That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it is a big life change and a lot to take on when you don't have the ethical motivation (nor are freaked out by meat like my husband).

you simply don't NEED that much protein, tbh. its one of the great 60s myths.

And anyway, even potatoes have protein in them

besides, since around 10% of the population is meant to be vegetarian, I'd have thought they'd have noticed if it was a serious issue in vegetarians...

Ok so your dh is asking you not to give your dc something he believes is wrong.

My husband is a veggie and I don't eat animals and birds. I have agreed not to give my dd fish as my husband thinks it's wrong. I'll miss it but I had a child with him so I have to respect his beliefs.

I grew up eating meat, so I use meat substitutes to recreate the dishes I like in a moral way. But I've expanded my diet and now find veggie cooking easier than meat, less contamination and shorter cooking times.

Why not get your dh to cook a few nights a week, this might ease the presure on you.

(Oh and the thought of a stringy, chewy, fatty piece of pig, fried in it's own lard makes me want to vomit.)

I would find this really tough. I eat meat and I find vegetarian food just not as interesting or tasty as food that contains meat or meat products. For instance, vegetable soup made with chicken stock is simply much much nicer than vegetable soup made with vegetable stock.

For people whose partners are really against meat because of ethical reasons (and not all vegetarians are, actually - some just don't like meat), would it make a difference if it was organic free-range meat? Or is this not good enough?

Personally, I do believe that humans are supposed to eat small quantities of meat as part of a balanced diet. It's good to eat a wide range of foods and meat is just one of them. My daughter's a tiny carnivore in the making and loves chicken and lamb and fish but she also likes tofu and chickpeas. Surely it's good to encourage a wide range of tastes in your child's diet?

Also, small children need a higher proportion of fat and protein in their diets than adults do. Meat and dairy products are a good way of supplying these needs. If you buy good quality ethically produced meat and don't assume that every meal must contain it, I can't see the problem. Surely children must be allowed to decide for themselves as long as this isn't compromising their health?

I think this is more about your relationship with your dh than about your dcs' diet.

I am a veggie and so is my partner. We bring our toddler up eating meat because we think it's best for her to eat everything and then choose for herself when she is older having tried it all and having formed opinions of her own.

I'm also keen for her to have enough iron at this early stage and eating meat is a really easy way to ensure that, I don't have to worry about her not absorbing vegetable iron so well.

If you and you're partner don't agree on what they are eating, it must be really difficult. Is there any way the two of you could sit down and discuss it rationally without it turning into an arguement (you say things are not good between you at the mo)?

It would certainly be easier for you to cook one batch for the 'veggie by choice' and another for the meat-eaters and those too young to decide. It sounds like you really want to give the little ones meat. I wish you luck trying to sort it out.

Tom - I cannot imagine a veggie giving thier child meat, it seems ludicrous. So if you don't mind me asking WHY are you a vegetarian, is it for moral or health reasons? How do you give your child meat without eating it yourself? I think your child might grow up a little confussed.

Oh and I do agree that children have the right to choose, and as soon as my children are able to understand what it is they're eating then they can eat what they likeas long as it's healthy.

Lucicle - You've obviously never had my veggie soup

High protein diets are not that healthy. We've all been conned by the meat and milk marketing boards. You don't need tons of protein at every meal - virtually every food except fruit and some vegetables contains enough protein for us, anyway. Ordinary foods like bread, and rice have useful amounts of protein in. You don't need to be counting amino acids or eating lentils with every meal, seriously.

Oh and about organic free range meat being a good compromise - no, not for vegetarians who choose not to eat meat for ethical reasons. It's still a dead animal. We don't like those.

Sushi, I would be delighted to be proved wrong in my belief that chickeny veg soup is nicer than veg veg soup, not least because it is cheaper! Feel free to invite me round for veg soup any time!

As for high protein diets not being healthy, no they're not, at least not for adults. But children do need much more protein and fat than adults do. The ideal healthy diet for an adult will not supply a child's needs fully.

I see that some people just don't like dead animals, and fair enough. But for a lot of veggies it seems to be about the treatment of the animals and organic free-range meat seems a good compromise between no meat and any meat.

macneil "It's hard to just whip up a grain and pulse meal, they take a while." Ever heard of beans on toast?

lucicle- our vegetarian meals are much more interesting and appetising than my mother's meat-and-two-veg. As for nutrition, my elder children are grown up and all of them are taller than me and DH. They are rarely ill- if ever- so we've obviously done something right.

Good for you, evenhope. You've obviously done really well. I think vegetarian food can be great but still think that it ought to be up to the child at the end of the day.

I agree, children should be given the choice when they are old enough to understanfd teh issues. i am veggie and dh is not, the dc's were brought up veggie until 4/5 ish (altho I permited my mother to feed them fish).

Dd loves lamb and ham, ds likes sausages but otherwise are firmly vegetarian. I have made sure they know what meat is and where it comes from (altho I have not yet done the full on how it is killed video )

Dh agreed that they should not eat meat until they were old enough to understand where it comes from (and not just Tesco's lol). Personally if he (or anyone else) had fed them meat on the sly I would have been very upset.

'Dd loves lamb and ham, ds likes sausages but otherwise are firmly vegetarian'' ?? so you can be veggie except for eating the meat you like?

Ok, when winter comes on, I'll make a batch of the finest veggie soup ever and you can come round

I agree that children do need a different diet to adults, thats why education is so important. I'm not a ranty vegitarian (not even a proper veggie as I used to eat fish) but I believe it's important to repect the beliefs of others. If I had vegans round for dinner I wouldn't serve them cheese because it came from an organic dairy.

Before I got pregnant I asked my doctor about bringing children up vegetarian and was told it is perfectly healthy. She even said that the vegetarian kids she see's on a regular basis are generally healther as thier parents are more aware of the foods they are giving them (eg no Chicken McNuggets or processed meat pies). That is in no way saying that all meat eaters eat McDonalds, I believe you can have a healthy diet with or without meat. I just choose not to have it in my diet and I am highly educated when it comes to the foods that are served in my house and what the nutritional values are.

I think that if you choose to live with someone who has strong beliefs about meat then you should respect those beliefs as long as that person helps you and does not expect you to follow them blindly.

I'm giving up fish because my dh simply thinks it's wrong and we don't want to confuse our children by eating different things. It's only for a small part of my life and it's the least I can do to help my relationship with my dh and my children.

I think in the case of this thread, the issues of why this has become a problem should be addressed before any strong decitions are made.

It is up to our dcs what they eat when they are old enough to decide for themselves. Until then they eat a predominately vegetarian diet with some fish.

Dd1 (aged 5) recently decided she wanted to eat ham. The next day we were at a party and she was offered ham sandwiches. I kept quiet as I had told her that she could choose for herself. She said, 'I'm allergic to ham. () Besides, I'm a vegetarian.'

My spelling is sooooo bad

thanks HonoriaGlossop for book reference and to carmenere for food ideas.
will give them a go for DD1.

Practically any meat based casserole can be made with tinned chick peas replacing the meat. It's quicker and easier than using meat - honestly!

I use dried red split lentils - no soak, just use as you do mince. I also use canned mixed beans a lot.

Another Veggie here. I was brought up veggie from the crib, so I wouldn't have the first clue how to cook meat! Luckily for me, my DH is veggie too, so bringing up DD as a veggie isn't a problem for either of us. I must admit, I've never given DD quorn - there's just so much scope with other foods like lentils, tofu, quinoa, loads of different kinds of beans, chick peas, cheese etc.

I wouldn't want to force my opinions on anyone. If DD decides when she is older that she wants to try meat then that is up to her - just I'm not going to try and cook it!

I agree that it's important to make sure that nutrition isn't compromised by any diet (whether or not that diet includes meat). As well as there being some very good veggie cookbooks out there (one for kids with crossover for adult meals that I particularly like is Veggie Food for Kids by Sara Lewis) there are other helpful sources of information. The Vegetarian Society have nutritional information on their website www.vegsoc.org/

I do sympathise with your situation QueenEagle - if my DH was a meat eater and wanted DD to have meat in her diet, I guess we would have to compromise. I'd find it difficult though.

how can your dh agre to tuna and chicken being eaten and not other flesh?

sounds mightily hypocritical to me, flesh is flesh, things with eyes are things with eyes imo!!!

I am a veggie, ex dh was a veggie. DD5 has been offered meat, but doesnt want it. I wont mind at al if she does wnat it, and would cook it for her too.

must be really difficult for you, but i can sense you are letting this become bigger than it has to be , becuase you and dh are not seeing eye to ey onother things, and therfore u see it as another incident of him getting his own way.???