I'm wondering what boris is meant to do?

[hellenbackagen]

The referendum result was leave .

The EU will not renegotiate but parliament wouldn't back the only deal available.

Now they won't back leaving at all.

The result was leave. Johnson promised to deliver that result.

So what now ?
There is No solution to this fuck up is there?

I know mn is primarily anti leave but for me the result was what it was and should be honoured. How many bites of the cherry should people get?

And not one party agrees with anything anyway. The EU will NOT negotiate so what are the options that the rebel MPs would like ?
Ignore the vote and pretend it didn't happen?

I am so sick of Brexit. David Cameron should be put in the stocks....

I wish the people who blather on about ‘respecting democracy’ could get this through their heads. It’s not difficult.

I've been thinking about the whole 'respect democracy' thing that keeps being shouted about. You (the British public) have been allowed one referendum, and people view it as some kind of sacrosanct decision, tablets of stone. Constant gibes about 'holding referendums until you get the result you want'.

We (Irish) are much more used to referendums, we have them all the time. The result holds as long as the public want it to. When public opinion changes, another referendum is held that overturns the result of the previous one. That isn't 'ignoring democracy'. It's democracy in action.

One of our referendums that the British are always poking fun at was the second one that agreed the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty. What's ignored is that we didn't ratify the Treaty as it was first presented to us, we ratified it after substantial changes were made.

Referendums shouldn't be used to change things utterly and forever with no way back.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

Public plebiscites coupled with an over powerful executive removing the ability of the legislature to challenge it have been popular in the past, of course. Hitler liked that approach very much.

I’m not sure how democratic old Adolf was tho. Just a thought.

Godwins already! Although usually before this point in a brexit thread.

Care to address the point at all? Is what I have said untrue?

Care to address the point at all? Is what I have said untrue?
No you are right of course, and talking about Hitler is immensely useful, imaginative and adds a lot to the debate.

Loads of countries including Ireland as mentioned by a PP above entrust decisions to referenda but that doesn't mean they are all being run by fucking Hitler does it?

IF there is a General Election I have a great slogan for the side of a bus:

TAKE BACK CONTROL - FROM DOMINIC CUMMINGS.

Think it might catch on?

No you are right of course, and talking about Hitler is immensely useful

People always shut down this argument without ever addressing it though.

Hitler was democratically elected. And worked within a democratic system. He circumvented it by using propaganda and threats to get his way.

When people say this was democratic therefore must be done, they ignore the fact that democracy doesn't always do the right thing. Can you imagine how many of today's issues around the world would be different if someone had stepped in earlier with Hitler and said "hang on, it might be democracy but this isn't right"?

As much as I dislike Boris and have never voted Tory I am afraid I cannot subscribe to the "watch out Boris might be Hitler" argument.

Far too many people on both (all?) sides of the brexit debate are jabbering about respecting or ignoring democracy according to their own narrow view - it doesn't make Boris or even Dominic Cummings Hitler.

If you read what I said more carefully, you’ll see that the point I made related not to referendums alone, but referendums in combination with certain other steps, chiefly attempts to compromise the ability of the legislature to act as a check on the executive.
Shrieking with indignation when the similarities are pointed out does not remove those similarities.

Before the good friday agreement became law I seem to remember there was a booklet distributed that explained what people were voting for.

We need something like that, to lay out all the factors and the estimates of what things will cost / change / stay the same.

Then when people actually know what they are voting for another referendum.

And who do you suggest to write that booklet? Johnson’s Merry men?

if a general election is held lib dems may win.

And who do you suggest to write that booklet? Johnson’s Merry men?

Oh no, not a politician at all.

The EU are more than happy to have rid of us at this stage and I’m sure whether you voted leave or remain, you just want everyone to shut the fuck up about Brexit at this stage.

I’m a staunch remainer, I think a no deal Brexit is a fucking disaster. I don’t think the referendum should have taken place at all because I don’t think many members of the public are politically informed enough to make such a decision.

So with that in mind, a further ‘deal or no deal’ type referendum is a ludicrous notion.

I see this thread and my answer is that he can take himself, his cabinet and go f**k themselves.

I am weary of People going on about Dominic Cummings.
ALL Prime Ministers have their unelected advisors.
Remember the following;
Alastair Campbell (Tony Blair)
Damian McBride (Gordon Brown)
Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy (Theresa May)
Marcia Williams / Baroness Falkender (Harold Wilson)
Alan Walters (Margaret Thatcher)
And a few whose names I have forgotten

None of the advisers you mention have sacked other ministers’ advisers or sayshayed around the Commons with red wine in their hands.

Or been accused of electoral fraud.

There should be another referendum, with 2 options as follows -

1. Leave with no deal on October 31st
2. Delay for 1 year to October 31st 2020 and let MP's continue trying to negotiate a new deal until then. If no new deal is agree on by then, leave with no deal.

Well, Boris shouldn't have run around 3 years ago making lots of promises about how wonderful Brexit was going to be, without any plan for how leaving would actually look or be enacted.

For what it's worth, I'm a remainer but all for respecting the democratic process. But I do think the leave campaign 3 years ago was built on a lot of undeliverable promises, and anyone who dared suggest Brexit might have negative consequences was just accused of 'project fear'. Subsequently I don't think many people realised that leaving the EU would be such a shitstorm or that it would turn out to be this much of a mess, or fully understood the implications of what they were voting on.

Poster above says they are weary about people going on about Dominic Cummings and compares him to previous unelected advisors.
All I can say about that is go and do a bit of research. Cummings represents a new low level of dishonesty and a complete lack of integrity compared to even the worst of his ‘spin doctor’ predecessors.
The vote leave campaign was his practice session. Now he is in the real game (which is all it is to him). He is smart. He needs smarter people to watch his every move and defeat him.
Sorry but - face the reality we are now in thanks to the 90,000 odd Tory party members who voted for ‘good old Boris - he makes me laugh’!!!!!!!

Yes I think that there should be a delay. They still have alot to sort out

I as my children if they want to move to South Korea or stay living in England. 2 out of 3 choose South Korea.

Turns out we can't get visas to move to South Korea but instead of suggesting that we should stay where we are and look at ways of renovating the house, I push ahead with moving to North Korea. After all, it's near enough and the kids definitely want a change.