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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm wondering what boris is meant to do?

513 replies

hellenbackagen · 03/09/2019 19:01

The referendum result was leave .

The EU will not renegotiate but parliament wouldn't back the only deal available.

Now they won't back leaving at all.

The result was leave. Johnson promised to deliver that result.

So what now ?
There is No solution to this fuck up is there?

I know mn is primarily anti leave but for me the result was what it was and should be honoured. How many bites of the cherry should people get?

And not one party agrees with anything anyway. The EU will NOT negotiate so what are the options that the rebel MPs would like ?
Ignore the vote and pretend it didn't happen?

I am so sick of Brexit. David Cameron should be put in the stocks....

OP posts:
contentedsoul · 06/09/2019 20:34

In the original referendum I was wary of which way to go.
3yrs later I'm hell bent on leaving. The way the EU is holding the UK to ransom...who the fuck do they think they are?
One thing that has been plainly seen by everyone is that the government and those in opposition are worse than fucking useless.
The incompetence shown by all parties will be both a stigma and a laughing stock on the world stage for probably the next century.

No one could have ever imagined that Westminster would be so weak.
They have all shown themselves in the full public spotlight to be gutless and useless.

OneHamm3r · 06/09/2019 20:38

How is the EU holding the UK to ransom exactly?Confused

emilybrontescorsett · 06/09/2019 20:45

Yes I'm wondering exactly how the EU is holding the UK to ransom .
Again how exactly is the opposition incompetant?
Seriously, do you expect Jeremy Cornyn to agree to anything BJ suggests?
No.
I'm waiting for the idiot to hang himself.
Anyhow the fact is this.
B J, along with many other Tories, have already removed their money out of the UK.
They will profit every time sterling falls in value.
They have betted against your currency.
They cannot lose.
There investments ride in value every time BJ opens his mouth.
If this were a sports match it would be illegal.
Remember BJ was not even a leaver. He is quoted as saying that the EU had done many good things for the U K.
He does not care.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/09/2019 20:47

@contentedsoul
How is the Eu holding us to ransom? They’ve agreed to a fucking deal. It’s the politicians, who sold a lie, who won’t back down. They would have offered us a Norway style deal but we didn’t want it. Nigel Farage thought that is what we’d get before the election.
If even remainers are believing this shit what hope do we have. 😭

emilybrontescorsett · 06/09/2019 20:51

Oh and in case you haven't done your homework, he has in the past swapped political parties to get bored in.
His real name is not even Boris.
He refuses to confirm how many illegitimate children he has fathered.
His response yesterday when asked what he will do to reduce the numbers of people having to use food banks was " Yes I am concerned about people not having access to good quality broardband, we need to address that. "

emilybrontescorsett · 06/09/2019 20:52

Voted not bored.

Aerielview · 06/09/2019 20:54

It's not the EU holding the UK to ransom, it's the DUP. A border in the Irish Sea would resolve the backstop issue, and it's a solution that's favoured by the majority of people in Ireland, both north and south. But it's the DUP's intransigence on this that in my opinion has led to the current status quo.

Cam77 · 06/09/2019 20:55

Truth is only about 10% of the population had an inkling of the complexities and challenging leaving the EU would entail. The question was irresponsibility put before an ignorant electorate, who should have erred on the side of caution, but recklessly chose to jump feet first into the unknown. We are now all paying the consequences as politicians across the spectrum, nearly all of very average ability, scramble helplessly to dig the UK out of a muddy ditch they never really expected to be put in in the first place. We have a parliamentary democracy for a reason.

Autumnintheair · 06/09/2019 20:58

I suppose everyone has seen and digested this new gem today, of course our resident ardent remainers will understand and agree with this from:

"

"Lieutenant-General Jonathon Riley CB DSO was deputy commander of the NATO-led ISAF force in Afghanistan. He also commanded British forces in Bosnia, Sierra Leone and Iraq and was awarded the NATO meritorious service medal. After leaving regular service, he has been a visiting professor in war studies and is an advisory board member of Veterans for Britain."

Earlier in the week, I and two colleagues from Veterans for Britain, Professor Gwythian Prins and Rear-Admiral Roger Lane-Nott, gave a briefing in Whitehall on the consequences for the UK if the defence and security sections of the current exit arrangements laid down in Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement and the Political Declaration are approved.

While the media overwhelmingly predicts negative consequences if Boris Johnson does not pass the EU’s one and only deal, defence is an area where there are clear and unparallelled dangers for the UK if he does. Three principal parts of the exit arrangements, contained in the Political Declaration, would immediately extinguish our defence autonomy and with it, one of the essential attributes of national sovereignty. We would be walking into a swamp from which it would be all but impossible to escape. Additionally, the legal knotweed which accompanies these three structures, which is scandalously given only a passing mention in the texts, makes the political burden and attachment even deeper.

Yet we are not even safe if we avoid the deal in the coming weeks. There is every risk that the Government could be led into these same defence arrangements under the guise of a trade deal, owing to the misplaced enthusiasm for these schemes among some members of the senior levels in the civil service. This has led to us being committed to at least seven levels of integration in EU defence structures that supersede and over-ride our national sovereignty. MPs have allowed this to continue or been duped; but sadly, few of them have taken an interest in the subject. Those who do take an interest have received bland reassurances from ministers, which usually carry the same wording regardless of which minister has sent it. In truth, how could MPs know in their own right how the EU Defence Union works and therefore the threat to autonomy that it presents? My colleagues and I took more than three months to piece it together while new linking structures were being announced on a gradual, staggered basis. This has meant working through more than a quarter of a million words across more than 15 texts and agreements.

I fear relatively few MPs have bothered to investigate how we are being sold out – and an even smaller number have spoken up in protest. It is the civil service and the political advisers who have been eager to accept the EU’s sales pitch and it is the same officials who have been free to frame ministerial advice on the subject. The result of this advice is that MPs think they are getting an à-la-carte buffet of defence, where the UK can breeze in and out as it pleases, with no obligations and only benefits. Nothing could be further from the truth. You would have thought 40 years of being told ‘no cherry-picking’ would have made MPs notice the hidden catch. The catch might have been noted, had Parliament scrutinised these measures as it should have done. A Scrutiny Reserve Regulation was put in place in 2010 to make sure this happened – but it has been repeatedly and deliberately breached.

Of course, the expanded political-military architecture of the EU comes with a broad and binding rulebook. You will struggle to find a Whitehall fan of EU Defence who is prepared to admit this. Most importantly, every part of EU Defence links to everything else. This detail is so poorly understood on our side of the Channel that EU spokespeople have taken turns to rebuke the UK for believing they can dip in when they choose without accepting EU terms.

Of course, it is not only MPs who have missed a trick. The UK’s news media have shown little interest and not even paid attention to the EU’s rebukes over policy links. The bottom line is that whatever exit deal we reach – including WTO rules – we have been enmeshed in a system that removes our sovereignty over defence and our defence forces. We can only take back control with an explicit statutory instrument that breaks this control from Brussels.

Are we a country, with all the attributes of statehood? Or are we simply a rule-taking colony of Brussels, happy to let our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines be put in harm’s way by unelected officials who can never be called to account when things go wrong? It is a simple choice.

Autumnintheair · 06/09/2019 21:00

This has led to us being committed to at least seven levels of integration in EU defence structures that supersede and over-ride our national sovereignty. MPs have allowed this to continue or been duped; but sadly, few of them have taken an interest in the subject. Those who do take an interest have received bland reassurances from ministers, which usually carry the same wording regardless of which minister has sent it. In truth, how could MPs know in their own right how the EU Defence Union works and therefore the threat to autonomy that it presents? My colleagues and I took more than three months to piece it together while new linking structures were being announced on a gradual, staggered basis. This has meant working through more than a quarter of a million words across more than 15 texts and agreements

This detail is so poorly understood on our side of the Channel that EU spokespeople have taken turns to rebuke the UK for believing they can dip in when they choose without accepting EU terms.

Cam77 · 06/09/2019 21:05

“Are we a country, with all the attributes of statehood? Or are we simply a rule-taking colony of Brussels, happy to let our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines be put in harm’s way by unelected officials who can never be called to account when things go wrong? It is a simple choice.“

The EU has been a key factor in half a century of peace in Europe. So it has done the precise opposite of putting our citizens in harms way. It is the Brexiters who are risking the peace. Peace in Europe, and weakened national security due to the loss of high level anti-terror cooperation and shared intelligence etc. Furthermore, the UK already has strong opt out clauses preventing any further political integration, unless the population should actively seek it through a referendum.

Cam77 · 06/09/2019 21:10

All I’ve seen from the Leave side over the last two years is superficial appeals to patriotism and sovereignty which grossly oversimplify the reality to the point of parody. Every time I see a so-called argument for Leave it makes me more worried than I am already am. The whole house of cards is built on a sentimental notion of Britain - the very Britain that is being ripped apart by the very act of leaving and distant dreams of the glory of empire in a world now bossed by the US, China and the EU, not medium sized European nations. Tragic.

Autumnintheair · 06/09/2019 21:36

Cam nice glossing over there.

Fingers in ears... La.la la.

Autumnintheair · 06/09/2019 21:41

What's utterly tragic is you don't what a house of cards is.

Our parliament and democracy is based on centuries of blood shed, rouge Kings, magna Carter, Henry viii and evolving and changing and being challenged into what it is today.

Clearly, when it doesn't uphold a democratic vote, more change is needed.
However. Its hard enough at the moment to keep up with everything and who's who, and what is that politicians record? Background?
Eg the spectacularly, stratospherically ridiculous Emily thornberry.

So how the fuck, is anyone with a life and other things to do supposed to keep public transparent checks on a parliament removed millions of miles away in bloody eu!! How!!!!

This very situation shows how crucial it is to keep government and overlords small and within reach!!

Autumnintheair · 06/09/2019 21:42
  • don't understand
Cam77 · 06/09/2019 21:43

Yes “Fingers In Ears!” if that phrase is taken to mean:
I read, but strongly disagree with, your flawed, superficial, and weak arguments, and have provided a couple of starter points for doing so. But, ok, “fingers in ears”.

Cam77 · 06/09/2019 21:46

So how the fuck, is anyone with a life and other things to do supposed to keep public transparent checks on a parliament removed millions of miles away in bloody eu!! How!!!!

I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but you are aware that the internet copes equally well with following live streams from Brussels just as easily as live-streams from Westminster. And yes, the proceedings are translated into dozens of European languages. So, my answer to you would be - pretty damn easily.

Autumnintheair · 06/09/2019 21:52

Oh yes cam it's very easy right now to keep up with revolving stream of politicians.

I'll stop work to devote the rest of my life watching a Brussels live stream and research every single gravey train burocrats and so called politician in the eu pie Confused

And, keep up to date with our own.

Not a single actual comment about the body of that article. Not one.

Says it all.

MerryChristmasHarry · 06/09/2019 22:28

The referendum wasn't a legitimate democratic vote, as Vote Leave broke electoral law. Thus the issue of Parliament not upholding such a vote doesn't apply.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/09/2019 08:28

The referendum wasn't a legitimate democratic vote, as Vote Leave broke electoral law. Thus the issue of Parliament not upholding such a vote doesn't apply. Could we stop that now? It doesn't help. And the same court that said there were illegalities also did NOT deem the referendum to be null and void becasue of it.

So what good does focussing on that do? Well, it does for you what it does for politicians... it diverts, distracts, gives something else but the job at hand to focus on...

Be like Elsa.. let it go.

Please, House of Commons - let it go, do something positive, proactive and GET US THE HELL OUT OF THIS MESS!

Dongdingdong · 07/09/2019 08:36

Labour refusing the public a general election will play right into Boris’s hands. It will appear to many people that they’re thwarting democracy (i.e. the referendum vote in 2016) and keeping the UK locked in stalemate when we have to move forward now.

MerryChristmasHarry · 07/09/2019 08:37

Yes, we could revoke Article 50 and hold another referendum if we wanted.

The EC didn't declare it null and void because they can't do that when its only advisory. The good it does to tell people about this is because its the truth and it needs to be understood not only that this referendum had no legitimacy, but that we'll be attacked in this way again if we simply ignore it. It may not work, but the alternative is a great deal worse.

OneHamm3r · 07/09/2019 08:37

But you can’t ignore it. It’s a fact.

Dongdingdong · 07/09/2019 08:37

Also, if we were to have a general election now and Labour won, that would end the possibility of no deal anyway!

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/09/2019 08:41

@CuriousaboutSamphire
Had the referendum been legally binding it would have been legally binding it would have been declared null and void. The only reason it wasn’t declared such was because it wasn’t legally binding, not because there weren’t enough irregularities. IE cheating. To use your words Could we stop that now?

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