To find this friend so difficult??

[butterfly220]

[name changed, sorry for the long post- trying not to drip feed. I feel like I have an endless amount I could say as this has been bothering me for so long!]

I have always thought I was quite a patient person but I am finding this friend really, really grating! I don't know if it's me, and I'm letting it get to me unreasonably or if this would get on the nerves of even the most patient person in the world!

We work together, and I can't really change that any time soon and in our context it would be very very difficult to distance myself.

Basically this friend will stick to me like glue for the entire work day- copying absolutely everything I do. I find this exhausting and very irritating, but when I try and call her out on it she always says she has low confidence and isn't sure what she's doing so I can kind of see why the copying is coming about (although I think she's perfectly competent and intelligent enough to do it on her own). But I do mean copying absolutely everything, like snatching things off me to see what I've written to write the exact same thing. I find I'm really doing her job as well as my own a lot of the time because when we are doing something different she'll bring things to me and ask me to do it- and then always takes any credit for herself I should add! I know I shouldn't let it get to me but when I've done something she's asked me to do, then someone comes and says to her that it was great etc. She'll just say "oh thanks!" even when I'm right there. I have tried to talk to her about this but she gets very emotional and always ends up with her making me feel bad or unsupportive. I feel like I spend 90% of my time trying to make her feel better, I often feel a lot like her counsellor and go home very emotionally drained. Everything is always very centred on her, for instance when she had a review at work (just general targets etc.) and it went well I thought it was a great opportunity to build her confidence and I went on about how brilliant it was, reiterating all the positive feedback etc. We talked about it for ages. Then when I had mine, I came back and as soon as I sat down she said please could I not tell her what they said because she didn't want to know what they'd said because she thought it would make her feel bad. I said okay and there was silence for a while as we worked and then she said can you just say yes or no to did it go well? I said it was fine and then she actually said "I don't want to sound like a bad friend but I think it'd make me feel a lot better about myself if yours hadn't gone well". It's always very focussed on her. If anyone says anything that's not 100% positive to her (even just a casual neutral comment) she's distraught and the entire day is spent trying to rationalise it with her. She is very negative which I find very draining. She normally greets me every day with "how are you?" Then when I say I'm fine and ask how she is she says "not great, I cried all night again." She always says this very matter of factly and kind of expectantly waits for my sympathy if that makes sense. She does keep saying she doesn't think the job is for her and I said I did think she should quit if it's making her feel so down but then straight away she's saying I'm saying that because I don't want to work with her/ I think she's crap at her job etc. So then I spend a lot of time reassuring her that that isn't true.

I think I could cope with this if it was just during work and I could escape from it at home but out of work she will message me all of the time asking me what I'm doing, who I'm with etc. If I don't immediately reply she will keep messaging me question marks, then I get "I'm getting really worried now, please respond." Then phone calls! Even if it's only been 10 minutes since her first text. If I reply and say, for instance, I'm out shopping. Then I'll get a barrage of questions about where, who with, what am I buying. She also always tries to invite herself to whatever plans I have. If I'm going to a friend's house- she'll ask if she can come. Despite never having met my friend. I have to politely explain that it's really just a catch up with an old friend and I didn't really feel like I could bring along someone who my other friend has never met. I was going to see a member of my family for their birthday- she wanted to come.

She is happily married and does have her own friends! I thought maybe she was just lonely and wanted to increase her social circle and thought maybe that would help, so I invited her to a meal out with a friend of mine a while ago and I regretted it so much so I'd really rather not do that again. She cried because they got her order wrong, and this made my friend very uncomfortable. She behaved quite oddly throughout, just was very intense. She also immediately added my friend on Facebook (along with other friends of mine that she's not met) and now messages her all of the time, similar to the way she messages me. At work she also keeps bringing my friend up as "her friend" when talking to other people (she's only met her this one time). I don't really care about this but it's just so odd. She also sought out other people in my life to "befriend" who again she's never met, like someone I used to work with really briefly who she messaged and asked for the phone number of?? My friends then ask me about it and I don't really know what to say or how to explain it. The thing is, she is a nice person and I know she does struggle with her mental health (she is on medication and having therapy) and I do want to be supportive and try and help her- it's just getting harder and harder. I don't think anything I'm doing is helping her because if anything she's getting worse!

She's quite a bit older than me (I'm mid twenties) but I often feel like I'm back at school because there's constantly some "drama" she needs consoling about. I basically want to know if I'm BU or overreacting (as she seems to believe, when I've brought anything up with her) or if anyone has experienced anything like this before and has any advice for coping with it? I'd like to be a good friend to her but also can't cope with the stress and drama this brings if it continues unabated!

”I'm actually not sure anyone would believe me if I tried to explain!”

We believe you, @butterfly220.

Please go to HR on Monday. Whoever goes first gets to dictate the narrative - someone coming back and saying that it's all the other person's fault looks retaliatory.

Equally I'd speak to each friend, not by text, and explain that her friendship is too much out of work so you'll be blovkering her at some point and if she's not become an actual friend to you too would you mind blocking her. They probably felt obligated to befriend her as she said how close you are.

Blocking!!

Equally I'd speak to each friend, not by text, and explain that her friendship is too much out of work so you'll be blovkering her at some point and if she's not become an actual friend to you too would you mind blocking her.

I wouldn't do the last bit, that's controlling. It's up to them whether they block her - though if they have any sense, they will.

Tell them when you block her, warn them that she is likely to complain about you to them, ask them for information, or both. Ask that they don't pass on any information about your whereabouts, when they've seen you, how you are etc. Because she will try to stalk you through them.

The advice with law suits is to sue first because whoever gets in first is more likely to be believed. It applies to this too, as Binglebong has just said. You have the advantage as she has set a precedent for trouble with colleagues, even if she 'won' last time.

Imagine if she senses that you're getting fed up and goes in to HR first. You don't want that. Go in first, explain that you're concerned but not trying to stir up trouble. I was going to say mention the previous partner but on second thought I think that might not look good. This needs to be about your problem with her - let them make the link and see a pattern of behaviour. Ask for advice and state facts only, not feelings. Don't come across as annoyed or defensive or emotional, just concerned. Maybe a face to face chat, followed by a 'just to confirm what we discussed earlier' email to create a written trail would be sensible.

Good hope she backs off now but bet she won't.

"I don't want to sound like a bad friend but I think it'd make me feel a lot better about myself if yours hadn't gone well"

Call that a friend?! No No No. That is absolutely vile. She is no friend of yours to think like that.

I don't agree with a soft sort out of this. Think of it like pulling a plaster off very slowly. Either way, the outcome is going to be the same. She's going to have a meltdown. So you may as well go for sorting this out once and for all in a very decisive manner.

Saying... oh my phone ran out of battery, or I turned it off for an hour... do you think that will work with her? Course not. It means she will just ramp it up.

Agree... go and see HR straightaway. I doubt they don't know about her behaviour. You need to be brutal and tell them you are doing just about all her work.

A question for you...
You call her a 'friend'. Would you be happy if she told you on Monday that she'd handed her notice in?
The answer is obviously YES. So you need to pull that plaster off with one quick tug.
She is not your friend. She is not your friend's friend. You are not responsible for her and slowly trying to make changes will not work. In fact it will make things 100 times worse.

p.s. you sound lovely and caring and you don't deserve this.

@Stayawayfromitsmouth

Pmsl! 😂

OP, she is not your friend. She will try to hurt you if you try to withdraw. Please speak to HR asap and be very factual.

Stop answering her texts/calls, this gratifies her desire to be in your life.

Block her on social media.

Stop doing her work for her, bloody hell!

I would change your phone number - if nothing else it will show how serious you are about the impact of her behaviour. I agree she will turn nasty as soon as you rock the boat so you have to have your bases covered, have your evidence saved and prepare for the worst. This isnt going to be easy to get out of.

Think of it like this (and you might like to present it to HR like this too) - if your romantic partner exhibited even half these behaviours people would be telling you to go to the police.

Yes, please go to HR

Abandon ship OP. She's not your responsibility. It's very kind of you to be concerned for her feelings, but she certainly isn't concerned about yours, so I don't think it's a sad loss of a friendship!

She sounds unstable and could turn nasty OP.
Get thee away from her

I agree with going to HR and not tackling this yourself.

I had the misfortune to be targeted by a person like her years ago. She was utterly suffocating. Thankfully not a colleague.

When i eventually told her i needed space to concentrate on settling my disabled dc at a new school she went batshit and reported me to every authority she could think of.

All lies, which I proved, but i absolutely agree with getting to HR first and controlling the narrative.

For a long time after I went NC i felt very nervous of what she might do. But then i realised she would do anything manifestly illegal like slash my tyres or throw a brick because it was important to her to appear to be on the side of authority.

I have no SM whatsoever and no internet presence. I know she would stalk it immediately.

HR or change jobs, numbers, email and move house.

Sounds like classic EUPD

I thought the same. I used to have a friend with this and reading your posts was actually triggering for me!

The messaging (150+ long abusive messages a day if I wasn't fully compliant in responding immediately); the calls; the relentless checking up if I hadn't replied to messages within 10 minutes; the trying to catch me out 'lying'; the accusations; the constant defending and explaining myself; expecting to be included in social events with friends of mine they'd never met - including weekends away... it was relentless and pretty much broke me. I tried to help them manage it and used some really great strategies but then I was accused of gaslighting them when I denied all the outrageous accusations of betrayal because I was telling them they were wrong and "trying to sound all nice about it" but still telling them that their perspective/position was wrong and, of course, that is what gaslighting is after all!

It was two men who helped me to extricate myself from it. One was actually pretty good at managing them - I think this friend listened to him because Man and all and the other used to tell me to think of this person as a controlling, manipulative bully rather than a friend, which kind of helped actually to distance myself from it.

Another friend spent a long time trying to help me see that it was an abusive relationship no different to any other. I generally have good boundaries but this person was the most controlling and manipulative I've ever met. It took months to fully extricate myself from it during which time it got a lot worse before it got better.

My concern for you is that this friend ultimately did me a lot of damage. The problem being that when they realised they were losing me, they set out to destroy me. And these people are so plausible because, as someone else said upthread, they are always the innocent victim - I lost friends; they damaged my reputation; told people I'd slept with a married man (because I "let it slip" that I met up with someone for a beer and a catch up during one of the times I'd said I couldn't see them). More than one married man actually. Whenever I saw another friend they were consumed with jealousy. Rather than the truth, which was that I gave up time and emotional energy to support them; I included them in my life as much as I could, they made me sound selfish and unreasonable for not doing more. I literally couldn't breathe at one point, they were messaging me at 2am demanding to know why I was ignoring them - really emotionally charged, distressed messages because I was 'ignoring' them when I was asleep.

The problem is that, much like this woman you know (she is not your friend), this person was very 'nice' and came to me with a very plausible tale of woe and it seemed such a simple, and easy thing to support them. Like you, I later wondered if any of it had been true or whether this had just been their reimagining of the facts.

I could write pages and pages about my experiences with this person.

I would speak to HR too, asap. Keep a diary because the level of contact you are talking about would be unreasonable in a best friend let alone a work colleague. So yes, get your narrative in first so that you are explaining the situation rather than defending yourself.

Good to hear you're ignoring contact. I know how difficult that is.

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to suggest she has EUPD, I'm simply saying that I had a friend who behaved similarly and that was the reason why.

It doesn't really matter why she is behaving this way, what matters is that you don't like it and you are unable to manage it yourself.

Speak to HR and I agree with the advice to tell your friends about it and stress the importance of them not giving her any information about you if she contacts them. If she diverts her attention to other people with you as the focus (which is what my 'friend' did), it exposes it very quickly. It sounds so intense and utterly ridiculous that you imagine you won't be believed when you tell someone (actually, much as you said you felt on here) or you start to wonder if you are a selfish and unsupportive person after all but others will have noticed some of the odd/obsessive/intense communications/friendship building and will see through it once it is pieced together.

She sounds dangerous (I don’t mean a physical threat) and as others have said you need to put the complaint to HR first.

Tbh I would be monitoring her texts today. Possibly responding. She is scrutinising your every move. Monitoring you is totally her game. If your behaviour has changed she may suspect the game is up and complain about you first. Use the power of mumsnet today to help you to fool her that nothing is wrong. (Big hugs)

You say she turns up at places and you have no idea how. Either she has read things on social media or she has managed to install tracking software on your / your friend’s phones. I’m not at all savvy, but can you check your phone? And if you do find something, do not remove it. This would be evidence.

Whenever I see posts like this I think of my sil. She scares the shit out of me. She can be so charming and it disarms you. When you fall out of line she can be chilling and it is so scary that I used to immediately obey and apologise. Now that I can stand back and see what she is doing I can describe the feeling that she gives me as pulling the legs off spiders.

It took me a long time to realise she doesn’t have the capacity to care about others like most of us do. I think my sil has got by in life by copying others and acting how she thinks she should. She did not have a career and from how she described her work environment I think she found working too stressful and stopped working as soon as she could - within months of meeting her now husband.

This woman is doing the same as my sil and is massively out of her comfort zone. I reacted just like you by trying to appease her. It didn’t work. Like me, you sound to be very empathetic, which is why you’re an easy target. I can totally imagine reacting in the same way as you have to this woman.

And it doesn’t surprise me that she is oxford educated. People like this have to be highly intelligent to pull it off.

You need to protect yourself. The most important person in your life is you. Sod this woman. She is doing nothing for you. She is your enemy. She doesn’t have the capacity to like you let alone love. Yet you’ve conditioned yourself to believe she’s a friend. Fuck that.

Two so much of your post resonates with me.

The experience I had changed me, I'm very cautious about new people now and take care to push back on too early requests for too much "support" or any lovebombing.

Now I say things like "hmm, not sure, perhaps there's a manual", "i don't have any advice for you, I'm afraid" until i have time to gauge someone.

Also if a person like this cries, don't get sucked in. Say "I'll give you privacy" and leave quickly before they can respond. The one I knew i felt was like a cobra, ready to spring. I was scared of her scrutinising my facial expressions for "betrayal".

Yes, cobra ready to spring. That describes it so well.

It started to feel like conversations we had were just them setting traps. I felt like I was setting off bear traps wherever I went, "ah but you said..."

Ridiculous stuff. So on one occasion, they asked me, on a Wednesday, what I was doing on Friday night. I said, "nothing, probably staying in with my daughter". They accepted that but on Friday when they asked what I was doing, I said I was on my way out because, half an hour earlier someone had invited me out and my daughter had gone for a last minute sleepover. Well 4 hours of angry, vitriolic, abusive messages followed. Accusing me of lying to them; I wasn't the person they thought I was; if people knew what I was really like... four hours of it all because I'd changed my mind about how I was going to spend my time on a Friday night.

I think the record, right towards the end, was 9 hours of constant messaging. I just got on with my afternoon/evening - went to the hairdressers, cooked dinner, phoned a friend, watched a film, did some housework... but they had spent from 3.30pm to 12.30am doing nothing but messaging me hundreds of self pitying, angry abusive messages (which I did point out to them afterwards, tbh). Each one doing little more than calling me names and telling me they'd just messaged me to tell me xyz and why was I ignoring them; what had they ever done to me.

9 hours!

It was a fairly regular occurance but that was the worst time wise.

OP, while agreeing with everyone else that this is a serious situation, and that you must act immediately, and involve HR before it gets any more damaging, I think you need to take some responsibility for the situation, to be brutal. You seem to to be unable, even in your own head, and in the context of complaining about her on an anonymous forum, to move past the idea that she’s your ‘friend’, and a ‘lovely’ person, and that you’re being ‘unreasonable’. You’ve allowed her to wreck your work life, to ruin your leisure time, and to affect your friendships. None of her actions are your fault, obviously, but your meekness about it all is going to have to change in order for you to drive effective change via HR by making a fact-based case — if your approach is saying ‘Ooh, I might be being unreasonable, she’s my friend really’ and/or you let her get there first, neither is helpful.

Very best wishes with it, but I do also recommend working on your boundaries and assertiveness as a matter of urgency.

You said above that you don't have proof of her odd behavior but you do with your phone call & text logs and also from your friends who she has approached and the friends you were with when she tracked you down or came out with you. All of her out of work contacting and stalkerish behavior are things you could also take to HR.

Good luck!

Oh, OP, I really feel for you as I remember what it's like to be in your 20s and to not be confident around people behaving weirdly and those feelings of "Is this normal?" and "Is it me?" And not wanting to make a fuss at work. It really makes me want to hug you, and give this woman a punch on the nose.

I think first of all you have to stop feeling guilty and responsible for her and don't see her as a friend but just a colleague, and a grown woman who has to sort out her own problems, and that it is absolutely not your fault if she doesn't. Stop defending her to people and be honest, own your feelings and tell it like it is. Look after your own wellbeing first.

Definitely have a word with someone at work and if they won't act, though you shouldn't have to at all, I'd start looking for another job and then block her on all platforms.