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Original poster

FULL EU MEMBERSHIP - now?

149 replies

Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 11:58

Reflecting on the last 24 hours, we now need to consider that leaving with or without a deal is looking increasingly inevitable.

With this in mind, and with a general election looming immediately after brexit. Is it now time for the lib Dems to be campaigning for full EU membership? The referendum was to leave, but that does not mean the UK can not apply to rejoin as a full member of the EU in the future.

Surely it is better to now put some energy into the future, to deciding how to proceed after brexit.

Do we think that is the way forward now? If the Lib Dems win they can immediately vote to reapply to rejoin as a full member, possibly with the euro etc etc.

OP posts:
Jemima232 · 29/08/2019 12:00

The Lib Dems will never will a General Election, OP.

Be realistic.

Original poster
Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 12:01

Okay well maybe labour then? And why can't the lib dems win, if they have enough support?

OP posts:
Cheeserton · 29/08/2019 12:05

The UK will never vote to join the EU with full options such as the Euro or joining Schengen. Apparently our already very adapted membership with lots of individual opt-outs was already way too much.

This is the shittest thing about our predicament - nobody was forcing us to join anything else and all of our compromises and opt-outs were serving us very well indeed. We already had our borders protected (see refugee crisis - millions on mainland, tens of thousands to UK). Our economy did great with the pound while others were in crisis. We punched above our weight in global politics as the anglophone leader of the EU and commonwealth leader. This crap is all so unnecessary and will only weaken our position.

Pukkatea · 29/08/2019 12:08

why can't the lib dems win, if they have enough support?

They just won't get enough support. Our system prevents large-scale shake ups of the established political parties and also, people are just too loyal to their voting habits. I know plenty of staunch remainers who just wouldn't ever vote lib dem.

whocanbebothered · 29/08/2019 12:11

The Lib Dems got a large vote previously and hooked up with the bloody Tories. I voted Lib Dem that year and never will again as it's a wasted vote. Lesson learned. They burned their bridges at that time, for me at least.

familycourtq · 29/08/2019 12:13

And why can't the lib dems win, if they have enough support?
Because of our wanky electoral system where a very large number of votes are simply ignored.

Original poster
Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 12:19

The UK will never vote to join the EU with full options such as the Euro or joining Schengen

I don't understand, why not? If we have 16.8 million people that voted to remain as part of the EU why won't they have that support. The EU I am sure would be glad to have us back, especially as proper member. We won't be able to meddle on the side lines anymore, and we will be fully integrated. I can't understand why we wouldn't want this.

Surely this is what Swinson, Bercow, Hammond are aiming for, as a half in and half out membership is not working for anyone. Least of all the UK.

OP posts:
familycourtq · 29/08/2019 12:20

In the 2017 general election, the Green Party, Liberal Democrats and UKIP received 11% of votes between them, yet they shared just 2% of seats. The cards are stacked against the Lib Dems.

Original poster
Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 12:22

Lib Dems could take the position as official opposition with enough support and donors.

Or labour could adopt their GE campaign to include rejoining, perhaps under even better terms than we have now.

Why isn't anyone supporting this idea? We have a GE coming up in just 8 weeks time for goodness sake, no party is making their position clear after brexit. None seem to have a plan, it is really stupid. How do they expect to win??

OP posts:
TellItLikeItReallyIs · 29/08/2019 12:23

The Lib Dems will never will a General Election, OP.

Well you say that but it's not impossible that if there is no Brexit, the Brexit party fields candidates in all seats, splits the vote in both Labour and Conservative safe seats and allows the Lib Dems to slide into numerous constituencies.

Original poster
Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 12:23

No one it appears apart from Boris Johnson, and his 'glittering' future that is.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 12:25

tell The chances of no brexit now is looking slim, very slim. So surely we need to be looking beyond it, because a GE is coming straight after is the word on the street.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 12:26

Perhaps the LD and Labour know now it is over, and would prefer to lose the GE than carry the country through brexit???

What other reason could there be for a complete lack of a plan?

I can understand why labour are balking with so many leavers in their party, but not lib dems. It is their fight to lose.

OP posts:
CendrillonSings · 29/08/2019 12:27

I don't understand, why not? If we have 16.8 million people that voted to remain as part of the EU why won't they have that support. The EU I am sure would be glad to have us back, especially as proper member. We won't be able to meddle on the side lines anymore, and we will be fully integrated. I can't understand why we wouldn't want this.

Bit of a logic fail there. I voted Remain because I was happy with the status quo. I would have been far less likely to have voted Remain had it meant losing all our opt-outs!

Alsohuman · 29/08/2019 12:27

You really think the EU would have us back after all this? Seriously?

Yarboosucks · 29/08/2019 12:30

If we leave, then we would need to rejoin under different conditions - joining the Euro would be a condition for a start. We had a great deal from the EU but a history of apathy, misinformation and ignorance means that we have given that away.

We are in for a very rough ride and I fear it will lead to the end of the Union.

We have been so badly let down by politician of all colours and the manic fervor of Farage (who we never saw fit to elect!) and the ERG; we do not know the half of it yet.

I am bursting with anger and I am ashamed to be British.

LarryTheLurker · 29/08/2019 12:32

If there is no Brexit TellItLikeItReallyIs the Brexit party won't split the Labour and Tory vote, they will wipe out Labour in the north and the Tories nearly everywhere.
Remember Leave won 406 constiuencies while Remain managed only 242.
Careful what you wish for. If Boris fails to deliver the Brexit the country voted for our next PM is more likely to be Nigel Farage than anybody else.
Who will deliver that Brexit.

BronwenFrideswide · 29/08/2019 12:36

I am at a loss with your logic, OP. A majority of people who voted in the referendum voted to leave the EU even though the UK had a very favourable position with opt-outs, no Euro, etc., and you think these self same people will vote for a full on membership? I would hazard a guess that a large number of those who voted to remain within the EU voted to remain on the terms we currently had as per Cendrillon. Where in your mind is there support for full on proper membership of the EU?

Cheeserton · 29/08/2019 12:39

I don't understand, why not? If we have 16.8 million people that voted to remain as part of the EU why won't they have that support.
Because the country just voted out of a far more watered down version than you propose! Because the exceptions we've enjoyed served us well and the British public are already very edgy about immigration without having no controls. Because, at the end of the day, our country is very insular and wouldn't tolerate giving up more control when we're already in this shitty situation over much less.

Iggly · 29/08/2019 12:41

We wouldn’t get back in the EU without joining the euro. No way.

Idontwanttotalk · 29/08/2019 12:41

"And why can't the lib dems win, if they have enough support?"
Well, OP, any party could win if they have enough support but I think the PP meant that they won't win precisely because they won't have enough support.

It would also be totally absurd for any political party to campaign to re-enter the EU. The UK would become a permanent laughing stock of the world. There would be more time-wasted negotiating the terms of re-entry. I don't think it would be easy either. The EU wouldn't just say that we could come back on the old terms. They might not even consider us re-entering for years to come.

We need to leave the EU on 31st October and then get on with putting trade deals in place and addressing the important domestic issues of the nation such as the NHS of the future, Social care and Environmental issues etc. Let's just get on with it.

VladmirsPoutine · 29/08/2019 12:45

I see your point OP but with all the best will in the world the Lib Dems will never win an election - I definitely think they could be king makers as no party I think will get an out and out majority. It's a shame Labour is governed by woeful JC. If it were Ed Miliband things would look very different.

Original poster
Blazingatrail · 29/08/2019 12:46

It is my understanding that the EU are already preparing to ensure all countries in the EU are part of the Euro, it is part of future fiscal union plans, so the UK joining the euro was always going to happen eventually had we been able to stay.

Secondly the opt outs you are describing are not always going to last forever and indefinitely, there was increasing pressure to change/remove/moderate them particularly from France who sees them as unfair. So maybe our full membership would have happened anyway (or not given the mood on the ground)

The EU are supporting a policy for more integration not less, so I am not sure how we, as one small country in 28, would have avoided more integration, and kept out opt outs, and stayed out of the euro under increasing pressure to do otherwise. The current flow is the opposite of opt outs etc.

How was that ever going to work? Genuine question.

OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 29/08/2019 12:47

People seem to think after 31 October that's it. We're leaving and we're done with Brexit. This Brexit thing is going to be an issue for decades. Leaving is just the first step. You think anyone will be wondering about the NHS budget when setting sail to China to plead for a trade deal. Let's be realistic.

VladmirsPoutine · 29/08/2019 12:50

Blazingatrail No that's incorrect. The UK would never have been forced to give up its opt-outs or indeed join the Euro. You sound pro-EU but it's nonsense like that which is why we are where we are today. Disclaimer - I used to be an EU civil servant.